New Woodworker

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My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experience. His plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to start off with top of the line equipment.
He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to build her some shelf units for their family room, maybe some picture frames, picnic table and some outdoor furniture like Adirondack chairs, etc.
I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a Table saw, Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, a belt and vibratory sander, and some handtools.
Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to basic shop set-ups, etc?
TIA, Bob
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Byrd wrote: | My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little | experience. His plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some | hand tools etc. He doesn't have a whole lot of money so he | obviously won't be able to start off with top of the line equipment. | | He's not looking to build any museum pieces for some time, just some | storage, maybe an entertainment wall-unit, his wife wants him to | build her some shelf units for their family room, maybe some | picture frames, picnic table and some outdoor furniture like | Adirondack chairs, etc. | | I'm more into building than fine woodworking, but I told him a | Table saw, Drill Press, Plunge router w/ table, a cordless drill, | a belt and vibratory sander, and some handtools. | | Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions maybe some web-links to | basic shop set-ups, etc?
Bob...
Just a thought - you might consider an inexpensive benchtop band saw for a birthday or Christmas gift for making items like the Adirondack chairs. If he becomes serious about woodworking, then he'll probably replace it with a better tool, but even the inexpensive one will make some stuff _much_ easier.
Other than that I think your list makes a good starter kit.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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Hi Bob
Glad to have another hobbyist join the club! Most people cut their teeth doing general around-the-house fix-ups before getting the gumption to try a "museum piece".
But as for your question, were you asking for lists of tools that would be recommended for a successful "minimal" shop, or were you asking for shop layouts (an organizational question)?
If you meant recommended tools, you're going to get quite a few responses, each flavored by everyone's expertise or preference. I'll chip in my two cents worth... I'd go with the following, pretty much in this order until you've reached your major tool budget
** Table Saw - Probably the most-used tool ** Power Drill - Probably tied with the table saw ** Sander - Can get by with a hand/block sander, but a palm sander will save your son time and frustration ** Circular Saw - This is a poor-man's sliding compound, so you might not need this for your son, but it comes in handy when cutting large 4x8 panels down to size by yourself ** Router - Most cabinet work can be improved by better joints, and the router is pretty darned hard to beat for speedy and accurate joint formation
The last here are optional toys, and depend on what your son thinks he will get into
** Bandsaw - This would allow him to either cut fancy curves into pieces if used with a thin blade, or to economically reduce the size of large boards if used with a thick blade ** Scroll Saw - Kind-of a mini-bandsaw, just for curve/scroll work ** Jigsaw - Great for free-hand cutting jobs, and cheap to boot. Essentially a power hand-saw. ** Drill Press - Great for mortising
And as for hand tools, he might have some of these, but here's my preferred list anyway...
** Claw hammer ** 6" Speed Square ** Retractable tape (he's gotta already have one of these...) ** Level (you want those cabinets level, right?) ** Screwdrivers (all 3 sizes of all 3 types, Flat, Phillips (cross) and Robertson(square))
The rest are small-ticket items that I'm sure he'll pick up on his own as the need arises...
Good luck to you and your son! Maybe we'll see him on here!
Dekker www.WoodworkDetails.com
Byrd wrote:

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Oh yes, I forgot to mention: SAFETY!
A $5 pair of clear glasses, a $5 package of dust masks, and a $30 pair of over-the-ear hearing protectors.
All those power tools make a ton of noise, and though none of them (except maybe the router) are overly loud on their own, over extended periods they can cause damage. Wood dust (particularly that of certain species) has been shown to be carcinogenic. And even I have been glad to have been wearing goggles, my worst (though not that bad) experience being given a big welt and cut under my right eye as a small corner/tip of wood was kicked back into my face with enough force to stun me for a moment! My father even heard the slap over the machine noise!
Dekker www.WoodworkDetails.com
Dekker wrote:

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Dekker wrote:

    j4
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Hi Bob, IMHO I would forget the belt sander. And spend the money for it and a "vibratory" sander on a very good random orbital sander. Cheers, JG

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Byrd wrote: > My son wants to start doing some woodworking. He has little experience. His > plan is to buy a Table Saw, Sliding Compound, some hand tools etc. He > doesn't have a whole lot of money so he obviously won't be able to start off > with top of the line equipment. <snip>
Learn to walk before trying to run.
Buy tools on an as needed, project by project basis.
Buy a decent contractors saw with the BEST fence money can buy (I like Unifence).
Equip it with a good combination carbide tipped blade.
Buy safety equipment as needed.
STOP!
Set up the saw and play with it.
When you have that piece of wood in your hand and reach for the next tool you don't have, it's time to go shopping.
My guess is that within 30 days, you will find a 6" ROS, cordless drill and possibly a saber saw in your future.
After that, probably a router kit.
If you get this far, you are probably hooked.
Trying to forecast and purchase your tool needs ahead of time can get to be VERY expensive in terms of money and storage space in a hurry.
If you have money burning a hole in your pocket you just have to spend, buy CLAMPS.
Above all, be safe and have fun.
Lew
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I'll throw in another vote for this idea. Your collection of tools depends a LOT on what type of furniture you're building - I'd recommend starting with a few small projects that can be completed with very basic tools, and see what type of work you like doing, and build your tool collection accordingly AS NEEDED. It's easy to spend a lot of money on tools because they're nice and they look neat, which may or may not end up being useful. For me, space is very limited, so I don't have a table saw, but a 16" bandsaw doesn't take up much floor space, and is very effective for rip cuts and a variety of other operations. A very short list of other tools/equipment I use on almost every project includes: workbench, shop vac, handheld circular saw, cordless drill, drill press, router + table, jack plane, low-angle block plane, chisels, and a variety of clamps. I'd also strongly suggest getting your son several books - used or library can save money, and look in the archives here or Amazon reviews for specific suggestions. I'd suggest something on properties of wood (often found in intros to other books), something specifically on the major tool(s) he starts with, some joinery/techniques books, something with a lot of pictures of wood and completed projects for inspiration, and a good finishing book. A published plan or book with plans can be a good place to start also. Good luck, and remember that for most of us making furniture is a more rewarding hobby than tool collecting, Andy
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Byrd wrote:

So far, responses have listed a lot of power tools, but no jointer or planer - not even a hand plane. No chisels, no scrapers.
IOW, what you've got is a list of carpentry tools, not woodworking tools, although of course they can be used for both.
But hardwood, unlike construction lumber, comes in random sizes and rough edges. Your son will be reduced to buying a limited selection of hardwood at Home Depot, etc. at greatly inflated prices per board foot. A few hundred board feet purchased like that and he'll have spent the money required for the jointer and planer :-).
But I do agree with the poster that said buy tools as you need them. Don't go out and get a fully equipped shop to start with. Your son may find out he doesn't like woodworking :-).
-- It's turtles, all the way down
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First of all, safety gear. That includes keeping crap out of your lungs, either via a good mask, or a collection set-up along WITH a mask...you can walk on a wooden leg, eat with false teeth, but you can't see a thing with a glass eye.
As Swingman and a few others have pointed out in the past, THE most important thing in building stuff like you mentioned, is BE SQUARE! (And be in a position to be repeatable...tables have 4 legs, shelves have many levels the same etc...) Squareness, and derivatives of 90 degrees are an absolute requirement for things to fit. So, my list probably focuses more on that facet of woodworking:
A good quality table saw with a good fence (I think Biesemeyer and clones are simple, cheap and rugged.) A contractor saw from General comes to mind. Surprisingly good quality saws can be had in the 'contractor' variety. I would rather have a General contractor saw than a Delta (new) Unisaw. But enough about me. Make a nice-sized outfeed table and side extensions, making sure it is all flat and square. The Biesemeyer fences can be had with nice long rails which allow you to build extensions between them. The side extensions make great router tables and you get to use the fence of the saw. You will need a router. Then, make an accurate sled for the table saw. That will do a lot for cutting smaller things to length and SQUARE. (A sliding CMS is nice, but no need right away. It is portable.)
Next, a biscuit jointer, maybe augmented by a Kreg pocket-cutting jig. You can do a lot, and save money, by going the dowel route.... that's an option... but bicuits are easy to learn and pocket-holes are very versatile. The Kreg lets you build things without the hefty investment of a load of clamps... but you WILL need clamps. Do not skimp on clamps. Better a few good ones than too many crappy ones. Cabinet Masters in my shop, but Bessy makes great clamps too, as does Stabil. ( Big clamps clamp small things, small clamps clamp only small things.. anything below 48" is 'small'.) Pipe clamps are okay for some dirt-work, like laying up boards, which you'll machine later, but they suck for assembling finished goods, they won't keep things SQUARE.
Unless you're going to buy pre-dimensioned materials, such as plywood and hardwood from HD etc, you will need a planer. Delta makes a nice 13" that I am very pleased with. IIRC its number is 22-580.
Then, a drill press can be made to do a lot of work.
The rest, as Lew Hodgett pointed out, will make their requirement known out of thin air as the need arises.
The hard part is justifying the cost of things that aren't 'obvious' in their role. Such things as quality saw blades and clamps.
The stuff you'll need for finishing? Sky is the limit.
YMMV.
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Buy a contractor's table saw with a cast iron top (no aluminum!). A decent router (mounted in a router table), finish sander and cordless drill. That should get him started.
I made this table with only the above tools when I started out in a VERY small shed:
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/table1.htm
--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com
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Oh, one more thing. I think I have made some pretty decent stuff and I still don't own a Biesemeyer fence (or a top notch table saw)! The craft is much more in the craftsman than in the tools!!!
--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com
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[snip]

Poppycock & balderdash!
Now try to envision the results when a craftsman, by your definition, has access to quality equipment.
Many things woodworkers accomplish, would be nigh impossible without the assistance of decent tools.
Imagine, if you will, the attempt to take off a strip of 1/8" x 1 5/8 x 96" off the side of a 2x4 with a hand-saw. Put that hand-saw in the hands of a skilled craftsman and compare the results *I* will get with relatively ordinary table saw.
I agree that there will be a difference if both of us were to use a hand saws.
However, the end result of a decent wood working project will be accomplished more easily and better by a semi-skilled craftsman with proper and adequate equipment than by Maloof with an ax. . . . . . ..unless the end result was SUPPOSED to look like a piece of Maloof ax- work... and that is assuming Maloof is a craftsman as opposed to an artist.
r
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I have seen the result of "craftsman" who have access to the highest "quality equipment" who produce nothing but crap, time and time again. High quality tools don't guarantee quality craftsmanship. Recommending to someone starting out that they "need" a Beissemer fence is just flat out ridiculous!
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You are kidding me, right? A Biesemeyer, or clone, is one of the most basic, fundamentally 'must have' pieces of equipment in any woodshop. There is nothing exotic or expensive about it. In fact, I don't think a more basic piece of gear exists. How are you going to achieve ANY kind of accuracy unless you have a good fence?

They wouldn't BE 'craftsmen', now would they?! They are just posers. Give a monkey a Leigh dovetail jig, and he's going to be a monkey, isn't he?
Quality equipment will yield a better result than crap equipment, as long as we keep the monkey out of the equation, right? If we take a reasonably competent woodworker and let him loose in a good shop, I am confident he will produce a better product than if he was in a shop full of crappy gear.... I mean, let's face it, we agree more than not. Buying a Festool Domino will not guarantee that some clown won't use it to polish a turd.
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LOL! "Must have pieces"?? Next your going to tell the guy he needs to go out and buy a domino or a multi-router right? Why stop there, tell him he needs a CNC machine! You're too funny Robo!

More basic than a Beis fence? Have you seen mine?
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/woodshop.htm

An accurate fence must be a Beis or Beis clone?? I can make an accurate fence from a stick of maple and a few clamps!!

Re-read my statement that you poppycocked!

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Stoutman wrote:
| Why stop there, tell him he needs a CNC machine!
Eh? No need. /Everybody/ knows that. :-D
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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Now you're being silly. Only seasoned pros know how to make use of those properly and can make those pieces of machinery pay. A Biesemeyer (or better), however, is just one of those things you can't live without, lest you start making junk!

a stick)
My fence is 12-foot long. Is that weird?
r
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I live without a Bies every time a make a project. My stuff is FAR from junk.

YES! My fence.

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Stoutman wrote: || Now you're being silly. Only seasoned pros know how to make use of || those properly and can make those pieces of machinery pay. A || Biesemeyer (or better), however, is just one of those things you || can't live without, lest you start making junk! | | I live without a Bies every time a make a project. My stuff is FAR | from junk. | |||| There is nothing exotic or expensive about it. In fact, I don't |||| think a more basic piece of gear exists. ||| ||| More basic than a Beis fence? Have you seen mine? ||| || Is there a fence which is MORE basic than a Biesemeyer? (Not || including a stick) | | YES! My fence. | || My fence is 12-foot long. Is that weird?
Hmm. This is beginning to look like a religious war. Seems to me that even true masters might choose different tools to suit their individual talents, personal preferences, and the tasks they take on.
For all users, from new apprentice to master craftsman, the major advantage of power tools is productivity (getting more work done in less time).
There does seem to be a relationship between quality tools and quality of result, but I'm fairly certain that a major component of that relationship is the level of knowledge and experience of the person who chooses the tool.
Note that I said: "the person who chooses the tool" and not: "the person who purchases the tool".
[ Dos centavos ]
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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