Personally, I hope lots of these are sold and used in the next year or two in all kinds of applications. Then I want to be around a few years from now when there are no drivers left that fit these things and countless handymen, builders, homeowners, etc. are doing repairs or renovations and mightily cursing the "*&%X*+X=A3 ignorant thoughtless bastards" who used them to begin with. I love progress!
FoggyTown
The why is easy. Phillips screws require a lot more inward pressure to prevent cam out and the Robertson screw square head tends to snap off bits.
The screws were designed to keep the production level up. If the ability to do the job is as good as they claim, then the market will dictate that the design survives.
The price of the bits or the drivers is cheaper if you consider how fast one scraps Phillips bits.
Leon wrote: Personally, I hope lots of these are sold and used in the next year or two in all kinds of applications. Then I want to be around a few years from now when there are no drivers left that fit these things and countless handymen, builders, homeowners, etc. are doing repairs or renovations and mightily cursing the "*&%X*+X£ ignorant thoughtless bastards" who used them to begin with. I love progress!
Oh, well. Not a remodel job goes by that we don't scratch our butts and wonder why in the hell "some jake-leg carpenter or plumber or tile man did something the way it was. Leon is right [again]; that's progress.
Really? I've never snapped off a Robertson bit or screw head, and I've driven screws that took both hands to resist the torque of the power driver.
I can only imagine that you were either screwing into something really hard with an impact driver (in which case it should be pre-drilled), or else the bit had a manufacturing flaw.
Chris
To make carpenters swear (even more), I'd imagine.
When I put up a deck for my parents this summer, all the deck screws were combo drives (like a phillips with a square head in the middle.) They work great- but one bit comes in a 5-lb box. After losing a couple, I was down to one, and went back to buy some bits- Surprise! They don't carry them. You have to buy another box of screws to get the drivers. So, they ended up being funny looking #2 squareheads for the rest of the project.
Looks like these Lox ones are even worse- no fudging there and using something that is almost as good, you *have* to use the proprietary bit.
Even if they're awesome, I think I'll pass- at least until they start selling the bits in the bins at the checkout of the hardware store with the phillips and squareheads.
It's not cheap if you have to drive to the next town and dig around in the back room of the hardware store to find one. Though I will agree that Phillips is a sort of crappy screw head.
Proprietary $ucks for the most part ... and to do it with screw bits, so that you can only buy the bits with the screws, is so much the "numb nut corporate mentality" that it hurts.
... "when will they every learn?".
I much prefer a torx--you can get the drivers at Sears or Home Depot or any auto parts store, and Lox doesn't look to be any kind of major improvement over it. Sure, that business about locking onto the bit sounds good, but a decent magnetic driver handles that with just about any screw except solid brass, bronze, or some types of stainless.
Actually proper use of an impact drive is actually easier on the head of a screw. Trying to drive a screw farther than it should be driven with an impact driver can cause a break as with any type driver.
3 weeks ago I built an entire deck cover using the less than ideal common Deck Screws and used an impact driver to drive the majority of that 5 lb. box of those 3" screws I broke no screws but did break 2 bit drivers because of an improper union of the screw and bit. This happened on the same screw. I have broken several square head screws with a 9.6 volt drill usually because the screw was too small for the application or the wood was too hard for the size screw.
Actually if you buy quality screws a square drive bit and screw lock together with out the need of a magnet driver. I very often have to "Yank" on the drill to get the bit and screw to part. This is not to say that Torx is any better or worse but that if the Lox holds the bit better than a good square drive screw it may be more of a nuisance to use.
Yes, I know this. Torx does not lock together reliably. Hence the magnetic driver. I tried square drive. If I had not used Torx first I might have liked square drive, but using "good" drivers and "good" screws (I'm assuming that what McFeelys sells is "good") I found that I was getting results only marginally better than Phillips.
YES, McFeeleys sells good screws. Don't mistake their screws for what you find in the Borg or misfitting Deck Screws. Typically you can plug the screw on to the bit and the swing the drill around, up, down, backwards, forward, in, out, and the screw stays put. Very handy in tight situations or when you have to stretch to reach something and you can only use one hand to start and drive the screw. Then after driving the screw you typically have to give the drill a yank or wiggle to part he screw and bit. Removing square drive screws can be a bit of a problem at times. The screw is stuck on the bit and hotter than a fire cracker after removing it. Sometimes tapping the side of the screw is not enough to get it to drop off of the bit.
I used the Torx screws in the automotive business and that screw really improved the replacement of sealed beams not to mention all the other parts. With the sealed beams being spring loaded the old Philips head screws holding the retaining ring were a PIA to remove.
Yeah- torx are good, too.
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