Designing

[Bill]

I know there are quite a few software people here. Even if you're not one of them, I hope you'll still get involved in this thread! In software engineering, we learn to put a lot of effort into design (and the more of it we do, the better we appreciate that approach, I think).

Question: Assuming you a a hobby-ist and not someone running a small business, do you spend a large percentage of your time in woodworking in designing your projects? Do you think of designing as "part of the work" or "part of the fun"?

I don't really want to interject my own answer here, but I rather enjoy drawing things out with SketchUp (and I feel confident the quality of my woodworking will be the better for it). In my teenage years, the last time I had the resources to work with wood, I would get to the cutting in minutes--in fact, I probably often started by looking at the woodpile...lol. Feel free to put your own spin on the question.

Bill

[SonomaProducts.com]

=A0Do you think of designing as "part of the

....I probably often started by looking at the

Inspiration comes from many places. Often I see something I want to reproduce. Often a glance at the wood pile inspires and I do a quick sketch and start cutting. Often I take weeks (or more) doing variations of a design to get it just right.

One note, is anything on paper does not convey scale and 5 minutes slicing cardboard to mock up the actual size of something can be very instructive. I designed a plant stand that once instantiated in wood was too big to even be sold as a lecturn.

As an FYI, I often find myself usingthe Agile method (which we use in SW design in my real job) on my wood projects where design refines over time during creation.

[FrozenNorth]

Note, I do not build fine furniture, but I have built a desk, workbench, closet doors, storage cabinets, decks, and benches etc.

Mostly is rolls around in my head a day or two, then a quick sketch, and on to making sawdust. On two occasions my wife provided the quick sketch of what she wanted, I just built from there after an hours thought.

Don't take this personally, but you seem to go for the government approach of designing a $100,000 hammer, when $50 will do just fine.

Too much planning and thought, leads to more questions, ad nauseum, the little details seem to fall out in the process for me, I did the same process with computer programming, think a bit about the problem, and then start coding.

[Puckdropper]

Bill wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I plan somewhere between 80-90% of a project before starting. Usually it's just drawing a picture and adding notes with arrows to call out details I'm either too lazy or too inexperienced to draw properly. I do enjoy the design part, but have only so much patience to work on any one project. If it takes too long, I'll quit working on it for months (or longer) and get back to it.

Puckdropper

[basilisk]

I once built some puppy houses up on legs, the original idea was to have something that two people could move around when the ground became less than pleasant under them. Armed with a mental design incorporating materials on hand, the finished houses require two people, a couple of come-a-longs and a backhoe to move.

basilisk

[Leon]

....I probably often started by looking at the

Inspiration comes from many places. Often I see something I want to reproduce. Often a glance at the wood pile inspires and I do a quick sketch and start cutting. Often I take weeks (or more) doing variations of a design to get it just right.

One note, is anything on paper does not convey scale and 5 minutes slicing cardboard to mock up the actual size of something can be very instructive. I designed a plant stand that once instantiated in wood was too big to even be sold as a lecturn.

As an FYI, I often find myself usingthe Agile method (which we use in SW design in my real job) on my wood projects where design refines over time during creation.

For the sake of insuring that what ever I build will fit, I quite often draw the room with its contents and add the project drawing to see how the project is going to fit in. Through that approach out the window if you ever move. ;~(

[Leon]

I do make money doing this but...

1. If I had to give up woodworking I would continue to draw woodworking projects.
2. I hate to solve problems in the shop when they can be solved at the computer before buying materials.
3. I do spend a lot of time designing at the computer however it probably saves me 2~3 times over in the shop.
4. Computer drawings are my detailed instructions that details how everything should be cut and how the pieces will fit.

My first really large project with Sketchup, Cutlist 4.0, and Cutlist Plus was the bedroom Tower project that I was posting about 12-14 months ago. Almost with blind faith I depended on the Sketchup drawings for assembly, Cutlist 4.0 to gather all information about the 300+ components in the drawings and import into Cutlist Plus for optimizing my materials. I did double check, but initial data importation was accurate.

Designing is absolutely part to of the work and absolutely a large portion of the fun.

[tiredofspam]

I used to be a software developer, I am still in the business but in a diff position.

I believe in software that planning for the problems is the key goal. Too often I see idiot programmers doing the job, but not handling the errors properly coming up with useless buggy code that is not sustainable.

I take the same approach with woodworking. I look for my problems. Then plan around it.

The design is the easy part, answering the hicups is the other. Such hickups are making sure the order is correct. Somethings need to be cut before shaping, others are opposite. Somethings will intefere with another feature.. I look for these after the initial idea and refine.

I can keep a very simple sketch.. but I keep a detailed list of the steps that I see me falling over. To make sure I don't fall over them.

[tiredofspam]

Maybe some interest....

see where it says teak doesn't float and has to be hauled by elephant because it can't be floated.

Now other sites say it can be floated based on specific gravity. I'll let you decide.

[Larry Jaques]

I was reminded of that thing when I watched the voluptuous Catherine Zeta-Jones in "Entrapment". Linked is the building I refer to. ;)

(Eat your heart out, Petronas!)

Amen, bruddah.

-- The United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world. -- Ayn Rand

[Bill]

Naval ships are made out of steel, no? So there is more to the matter than the specific gravity of a substance. Unless it's your elephant, why do you care? ;)

Bill

[Leon]

LOL, absolutely how they looked when moving into the master bedroom in the new house. The towers grew a top which made them too tall to simply slide up-right through the door opening, unless I removed the tops.

Sooo we laid them over and carried them into the bedroom, me on one end, my son on the other. The trouble here was the fact that you ender the bedroom through a short hallway now instead of straight in. The towers came in contact with the door jam on both sides and the end corner of the hall wall. Basically the towers were in contact with "house parts" at 3 different locations. Fortunately the towers were not 1/64" wider or deeper or I would have had to remove the tops. It was a perfect fit, no loss of paint from the either side of the jams or the wall, but there was a slight bit of resistance. Whew!, again.

[Leon]

If the weight of a ship is less than the weight of the water it displaces, it floats. If heavier than the water, it sinks. Teak will float if boat shaped. ;~)

[Bill]

Somehow that reminds me of the Octopus Lew told me about. I'm not going to spend $100,000 on it, as I don't have it and wouldn't even if I could. But I'm at the point in my life where I am willing to send flowers... I no longer drink or smoke--and I'm pretty sure that puts me ahead, even after the flowers, along with probably just about any power tool you would ever want to have... When I paint my shop this spring, I'm not going to use the cheapest paint I can find--even if it stings a bit, even though the cheapest paint I can find would probably work just fine. Hope that helps you understand my point of view. YMMV. BTW, I did not take your message personally. Your point of view is well-taken.

BTW, my hammer is worn out (rubber handle covering is loose) and I have been debating whether to get the Estwing with the laminated leather grip or the regular model. So far I haven't been able to justify the $7 extra for the former. I hope that helps you understand where I'm coming from. Living gives us, if were fortunate, the freedom to make choices.

Bill

[Bill]

That's pretty deep when you stop to think about it. Who decides? ; )

[FrozenNorth]

I wasn't talking cost, I never (or almost never) buy the cheapest product, but once I decide I need something, a bit of research and I try to get the best mid range product out there, subject to local availability, i.e. I avoid WalWart like the plague.

Just saying over-thinking and over-designing something, sometimes leads to less flexibility when the actual implementation time rolls around.

To each his, or her, own. :-)

[Robatoy]

Will it float if it is balloon shaped?

[Larry Jaques]

Are the walls still blue in places, Leon? I'd imagine a large blue cloud around that particular little move. Heh heh heh.

-- The United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world. -- Ayn Rand

[Sonny]

I don't know how to use Shetch-Up or any other similar program. I get many ideas, for projects, from every/any-where and I sometimes create my own modifications, when/where needed, as I suppose most hobbists do.

I have become proficient enough that I can often start basic construction (rough cutting, rough measures, ie., educated guesses) with many construction aspects, but when it comes to details for things like jointery fit dimensions, boards lengths, panel dimensions, I'll go to the planning table and draw out the exact measures and coordinate the correct cuts & assembly details. It is often at these times - detailed measurement figures, drawing/planning schematics, fitting via measures - that I may discover a previous measure/figure/ fit will need to be tweaked. If this detailed phase of the project was not fun, also, I would likely skimp on the exactness of the measures, figures, fits, etc., and my pleasure with getting a project finished, properly, would fall short. If I don't build it correctly, and enjoy what I'm doing, then the whole process would simply be a chore or task to be done. My hobby projects are not chores to be done!

*Repairing a tool is sometimes a chore, but at the same time, rewarding, because I know the end result will allow me to get back to doing the pleasureable work, using that tool. I like fixing (maintenance) a tool successfully, too, and sharpening a tool perfectly, etc. It's nice to have a good reliable (old friend) tool working well for me. Somehow (?), I enjoy the "company" of many of my tools and my shop. They are like old friends. They are not job- sites. Some old hand-me-down tools, somehow, I sense, come with the friendship of the previous owners, too.... and that's a comforting thought, too. (LOL, I think I'm getting into a foggy (Tao) realm, here, (like Grasshopper in Kung Fu, was it?), becoming one with the tool.)

There have been times when I build something, not that I need it for a function in my home or elsewhere, but I build it because I think I can. This initial thinking is part of the planning stage, I suppose. Later, I either find a personal use for it or give it away.

I know how to make many particular joints. I know how to make moldings/ profiles, I know how to make many of these kinds of specific "designs" or parts. The detailed planning for coordinating and assembling all of these parts is what I spend lots of out-of-shop time doing.... making sure all the measures/figures/dimensions/fits allow for the working/coordinating/assembling of everything properly.

It is rewarding to accomplish the building of a nice piece (excellent outcome). However, there has been times when I, personally, have been more gratified for having solved/created a particular design aspect/issue, within the piece (because of the detailed out-of-shop planning/measuring/figuring), than the satisfaction I've had with the whole of the finished piece. Somehow, I think, I have more gratification for solving/creating a detail, than if I were to rely on a computer program to solve/create it for me. .... Does that make sense? Not sure my meaning is clear, here. Maybe if I used (learned to use) Sketch-Up or something, I would appreciate what it has to offer, just like any other good reliable tool.

I think I got off on a few tangents, here. It's cold outside and I'm stuck indoors.... a scenario for ramblings on, that way. Sonny

[Larry Jaques]

Depends. (sorry, not talking about your undies.) Lead balloons don't float, most others do.

-- The United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world. -- Ayn Rand