Designing

[Han]

Robatoy wrote in news: [e-mail]:

[Larry Jaques]

A LITTLE BIT? He make joke.

Got insulation in the roof yet? Just drill 4" holes and blow it in if you have a finished floor up there. Cover with a strip of carpeting. ;)

-- The United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world. -- Ayn Rand

[Bill]

Thanks Larry. Everyone gets the choice to believe in something--why cheat oneself (rhetorical, and not hardly directed at you)?

[Bill]

I have a half-finished floor up there. And part is not even (very) accessible. Unfortunately this project is not near the top of my list for now. My little black "shop mole" is just going to half to tough it out.

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

Aren't all the joists open lengthwise? Blow it in!

-- The United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world. -- Ayn Rand

[Bill]

Awe, you missed my two posts about my furry, black shop mole? One was sort of funny...I'll see if I can locate the posts later.

[Bill]

Actually, mine run the other way, and half are under a very shallow part of the roof, and I don't know whether they are accessible. I suppose everything is accessible through the ceiling. I'll probably look into that someday. One project at a time! :)

Do you know where to get seals (rubber stripping) for around the frame of an electric garage door? Mine is 1/3-gone. I think that is something I should replace first.

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

Oh, that's the little guy who wandered in one day? I do remember it, vaguely.

-- The United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world. -- Ayn Rand

[Larry Jaques]

Agreed.

BORGs all have 'em. Buy a whole new set for under $20. Get the bottom seal, too. I picked one up for $13.95 about 6 months ago at a local home improvement store.

-- The United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world. -- Ayn Rand

[Nova]

Ayup.

in white and brown IIRC.

[Swingman]

Old coonass proverb: A job begun without a plan gets no better.

[RonB]

Depends on the project. Larger projects such as a new cabinet or similar work usually gets pretty well planned before I start. I am an old board draftsman and I normally do a "layout" drawing before I start. As a draftsman, "layout" was not a finished, pretty drawing; rather a fit and function layout with rough dimensions. This layout usually defines about 50-75% or the end product, the rest might be worked out during fabrication and assembly. For most jobs, I do the layout on a 2' square piece of poster board and use my trusty drafting table with a parallel bar. Shop sketches, using the layout as baseline, are done using quad pad on a clipboard that hangs near my bench.,

For the record, I am CAD trained but the training goes way back (1980's early 90's), After that I had the misfortune :^} of getting into management and never used CAD much. I have fiddled with PC-based CAD and used the architectural program PUNCH to conceptually lay out our new house. I have looked at Sketchup and others but frankly, I would rather lay it out by hand and work in the shop than learn design software. Maybe someday.

RonB

[Lew Hodgett]

Depends on the project. Larger projects such as a new cabinet or similar work usually gets pretty well planned before I start. I am an old board draftsman and I normally do a "layout" drawing before I start. As a draftsman, "layout" was not a finished, pretty drawing; rather a fit and function layout with rough dimensions. This layout usually defines about 50-75% or the end product, the rest might be worked out during fabrication and assembly. For most jobs, I do the layout on a 2' square piece of poster board and use my trusty drafting table with a parallel bar. Shop sketches, using the layout as baseline, are done using quad pad on a clipboard that hangs near my bench.,

For the record, I am CAD trained but the training goes way back (1980's early 90's), After that I had the misfortune :^} of getting into management and never used CAD much. I have fiddled with PC-based CAD and used the architectural program PUNCH to conceptually lay out our new house. I have looked at Sketchup and others but frankly, I would rather lay it out by hand and work in the shop than learn design software. Maybe someday.

---------------------------------- Great minds run in the same gutter.

Put myself thru school slinging lead on a drafting table starting when I was 18..

After graduation from college, it was free hand sketches for the drafting department to convert into finished drawings.

As a salesman, it was cocktail napkin engineering time.

Lost track of how many jobs were entered with a pile of napkins documenting the job, especially control diagrams for process automation, electrical power distribution systems and industrial lighting layouts.

If I were 20 and starting again, I'd be gung ho over some puter design program; however, at this point in my life, the spirit doesn't move me to learn new puter programs.

Built a 55 ft, double head sail ketch with nothing but sketches done with a couple of triangles and pads of 8x8 graph paper.

Not for everybody, but works for me.

Lew

[Bill]

Larry, I am just curious. What, specifically, were you thinking of when you wrote that? Just the DP baseboard or something more?

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

You tend to go way overboard on getting details (for every project), so I was kidding you about it. No offense intended.

-- A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on. -- William S. Burroughs

[krw]

Or creeping featuritis.

[Bill]

I assume by "first system, you mean the first version. I don't know what you mean by "fit in everything they know". Actually, I think it's more than fair to say that the better the view of the big picture at the beginning of a project the better the final result. The users should be clear about what they want. Complexity doesn't justify failure. Staff and schedule accordingly. By all means, build a prototype, but that's just part of the process/conversation.

An unfortunate few never get over the first system and

[krw]

Every feature possible, just in case you might need it some day (or someone might want it, in the case of product development).

Pretty soon you have to fish or cut bait.

[Bill]

The philosophy of the contractor I worked for was that we could do anything the customer would pay us to do. The important thing is to capture the specifications in writing, rather than letting the customer keep coming up with new ideas. Very much like has been discussed here regarding woodworking contracts, fees for changes, etc.

Bill

[Ferd Farkel]

Spend most time designing, process of coming up with as many answers as possible, then reducing to the best, simplest of the crop. The axiom "less is more" proves itself every time. Ideas come from anywhere. I carry a sketchbook (pencil and point perspective work better than CAD software, and I have years' experience with ACAD) and fill between

2 and 6 pages pretty much every day, makes better use of doctor's office waiting room time than reading the latest copy of People. Evening is the most fertile time for really good ideas. Usually fill a page or two before going to sleep.