A little backround....I'm a carpenter for a living and can say that the chances of finding a blade guard on any jobsite table saw (mine included) is slim to none. There are many of us who feel more comfortable seeing the blade and watching the cut rather than having it obscured. Without the blade guard you learn to pay very close attention to the task at hand, which is a good skill to have running a table saw anyway (with or without the guard.) However, I recently bought a cabinet saw for the shop and would like to find a decent guard. I tried the excalibur guard I got at auction out today and find it a little clunky at the blade cover, although with some re engineering I think I can make it workable. --dave
It's dangerous after the cut as well. In repetitive cuts, I have to move my hands, wood, etc in preparation for the next cut. Some accidents occur when people watch other things, and forget about the blade.
If I take my eyes off the blade, I might get careless. It's hard to forget about the blade if your eyes are on it.
I've worked construction before, and I've seen plenty of construction sites. And I can say that the chance of finding eye or ear protection on any of the people working there is slim to none.
Doesn't mean it's a good idea.
If anything, you're making a good argument *for* using the blade guard!
The question remains unanswered: why do you "feel more comfortable" when you can see the blade? It isn't going anywhere...
If you have not already learned to pay close attention, you shouldn't be operating the tool *with* a guard, let alone without one.
That's not the point at all. Are you telling me that people who had accidents with a table saw didn't THINK it was dangerous?
The cause of most accidents are (I would guess) inattention, stupidity, and ignorance. And I bet that most seasoned woodworkers have accidents with tablesaws because of inattention.
My attention won't wander while I'm watching that blade.
Au contraire. It's been my experience very few of these guys are all business. I'd be surprised if they didn't take the time to ask. Hell, I'd ask. It's one of the ways I assess level of consciousness and orientation. Kills two birds with one stone... professional and personal curiosity.
Yeah, but his patients would become my patients if they become admitted to the hospital. I work with orthopedic surgeons every day at work; that's the area I work in. We're an orthopedic/neurosurgery/med-surg floor.
I used to work on a combination orthopedic joint/urology unit at a large teaching hospital. I called it : "bones 'n boners".
(snip) If anything, you're making a good argument *for* using the blade guard!
I'm not trying to argue anything here. Just because YOU use one doesn't mean everyone else should. Have you ever run yours without a guard? And if so, why are you using one now.
(snip) If you have not already learned to pay close attention, you shouldn't be
On the flip side, if you *truly* have learned to pay close attention to the task at hand why would you need a guard? Guards surely prevent accidents, but accidents in the shop generally don't happen to someone who is aware of , and more importantly knowledgeable, about what they are doing.
I suppose you'd have a big crisis if I mentioned I am also perfectly comfortable cutting something freehand on a table saw as well! --dave
I use a bladeguard any time it doesn't impede an operation and I require 350+ college student shop users to do the same. Back when I didn't have to set an example, I hated bladeguards as much as the next guy, but after a few years of using 'em, I get uncomfortable when it should be there but isn't.
Of course most stock guards are worthless and are thrown out for a reason. Aftermarket overheads are pretty good or you can build your own or just get a new saw (a good excuse for a new tool!!). The new PM has a riving knife as does the sawstop. I think I recently heard that riving knifes will be required on new saws in 09? (I'll check this out at work tomorrrow) So if your looking for new equipment, you might put it off to see what happens with this.
We use Beismeyer overheads. The cheezy adjustment bolts are removed, so it's an easy slide of the telescoping tubes to tweak the location of the guard or to push it out of the way for narrow rips.
We have SawStops, so the riving knives are ALWAYS(nearly) there, invisibly making stock go straight and preventing binding. I actually worry that our students will get into trouble if they use saws without riving knifes in some other setting: the riving knives almost make things too easy.
BTW: we have not changed any sop's with the advent of sawstops, they're just another layer of protection.
I agree that watching the blade is not necessarily sound practice. You really cannot discern what your stock is doing if your fixating on the blade spinning 'round. If you're ripping, it's much more important to keep an eye on the edge of your stock against the rip fence so that you know that it's going straight and can adjust accordingly if it isn't. The blade is going to spin and cut, you should be concentrating on making the stock go straight.
I've got 2 unbending, shorter-than-the-other fingers due to an unguarded tablesaw that I got into when I was in college. I've been preventing it from happening to other students for 12 years now. Blade guards (and sawstops) are a no-brainer.
If you don't use a guard you're just asking for trouble.
I don't care how experienced, careful, knowledgable or invincible you are, WHY would you leave that spinning blade out in the open when you can put something over it.
Kevin Groenke University of Minnesota College of Design - FabLab
This is a rant. If you read it, don't complain later that it was too long or about what it says.
All this back and forth over a blade guard. Not one of you is going to change. Those who believe that they are invincible will continue to believe that they are invincible. those who have either taken advice or have seen enough accidents will be using a blade guard. So be it.
There are two times when one is an accident waiting to happen, The first is when they are just beginning, and the second is when they think that they have mastered it and think that they are in control, thus becoming comfortable with what they are doing.
I do not know about the rest of you, but I have spent a lifetime working in dangerous places and situations around moving machinery and high voltage. And in that lifetime,of over 70 years, I have see a great many accidents around machinery, and virtually all of them happened to someone who had been doing that job for many years. Then it happened to them.
What roofer or carpenter has not seen someone fall off a building? What meat cutter has not cut them self? So you really think that it won't happen to you?? Every one of them was sure that it only happens to someone else, and won't happen to them. All you have to do is to sneeze once without warning, and you are going to move where you do not expect to be. I personally knew a man who was hit by an airplane propeller, and yes he lived. That he lived was so unusual that the navy sent him all over the world to teach safety. He had worked around those airplanes for many years. He knew where the danger zone was, but a gust of wind at just the wrong time. I saw a man physically picked up and drawn into the intake of a Jet engine in less than 4/10 of a second, he got too close. Again a man who had worked around those engines for years. He knew where he should not be, but just one foot too close. I saw men loose fingers and hands and eyes, just because they grew comfortable around moving machinery. And you think that it will not happen to you? Good luck all, I hope that you never find out the hard way as so many do. No it does not have to be your fault. strange things happen sometimes. A single thread hanging down can be caught and drag you into whatever is moving. One strand of hair is all it takes to grab you and pull you in. Just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have see that happen also. I saw a man one day slip and have his hand run into a moving band saw blade faster than you could blink, his hand had been at least a foot away from the blade. Cut three inches into his hand between the thumb and first finger before he could stop his hand from moving. Every one of them was doing what they did day in and day out. Professionals every one.
I have watched those carpenters and other workers who have thrown safety out the window just because the boss is pushing for just a little more speed.
You all should really look at power company workers, the hot linemen. You have two extremes of their ages. Either very young just starting out, and very old men. The only way for the very young to reach the old age is to listen to the old men who practice extreme safety at all times. If it cannot be done safely, it just will not be done.
I have refused to do some jobs because they could not be done safely, and I refused to take a chance. They could keep the job, and I'll keep my life. Every time they found someone else who would gamble their life, gamble their hands, eyes, etc that they could get away with it. And mostly they did win the gamble. But once in awhile some one lost the gamble.
You go ahead and gamble, it's not going to hurt me. It's going to hurt your family.
But I still have all my fingers, all my toes, both my eyes. You say that you have too? Well some of us are trying to help you keep them.
Sorry -- I didn't mean to start a battle of numbers. I am one of only a couple hand surgeons in a community west of Cleveland. My practice is limited to hands and wrists, and my affiliation with the Cleveland Clinic draws a lot of referrals. I also keep a part of my day open for emergency patients, increasing my availability for these problems, and probably the number I see relative to a hand surgeon who tries to see only elective patients. Most of the injuries are "warning shots" - requiring little more than dressing changes, motion exercises, wound care, and a few sutures. Most are able to bring themselves, or find a ride to the ER or office, rather than requiring the services of a rescue squad. Just about everything surgical below the wrist is managed as an outpatient now (with fingertip and nail injuries repaired in the office), except for procedures requiring a microvascular repair.
As a woodworker, I always find time to ask how it happened. I've actually learned quite a bit from other's "experience". Often it opens them up to share some stories. At follow-up visits, some have brought in pictures of their projects, and a few brought in some smaller works. I've been astounded by some of the craftsmanship, and find it a rewarding part of my practice. I might have even convinced a couple of them to use guards, pushsticks, splitters, outfeed support, etc. Or not. . .G>
The guard is on my saw except for non-through cuts. I'm thinking about making an overarm guard so it is always on for the same reason I have a chainsaw with a chain brake. I plan to do everything within my power to keep all my parts intact. Others mileage may vary (IE. if your parts don't matter to you, go for it).
Give it time. You'll learn why that is not necessarily the right place. There is a time and place where we all of think we are 10 feet tall ,teflon coated and bullet proof. Good luck with that one.
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