anyone work for Lowe's or Home Depot?

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snipped-for-privacy@igetenoughspamalreadythanks.com says...

Certainly the ones that would have been expected to have expressed outrage in the past were guilty of this, in particular, those over in the NOW gang who were lambasting and crucifying corporate figures and politicians like Bob Packwood were not only silent, but actually vocally defending the actions. What was most telling was that those who had a voice and the ear of the media (as well as the media itself) did not express that disgust or sense of betrayal, but rapidly fell in line with, "it was only sex, everybody lies about sex" and "it was his private life, it shouldn't matter".
I certainly believe that others who had previously supported that administration but did not have a public voice did have the feelings you indicate above. It would not surprise me that rank and file voters and others would have felt this sense of betrayal. What was disappointing (or confirming, depending upon one's viewpoint) was the public support, the media push that villified those who were pursuing the perjury charges, and lack of public condemnation.

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<snip...on some guy who lied about fooling around with an intern...>

I can recall very few times I ever heard a fellow canadian differentiate between "life" and "court". In all those cases, as far as I can recall, it was that a defendant would be expected to lie in court, as after all the whole point of pleading not guilty is to keep your ass out of trouble. Note that I am not saying they felt that all people lie in court, just that you can't believe what a defendant says. And that you would be a moron for not lying if you can get away with it. Beating "the man" (especially taxes) is somewhat of a sport in Canada, particularly in some areas like the province I was brought up in (Newfoundland).
People in Canada (or at least an awful lot of them) really did think that it was just sex. And it is still at least somewhat taboo to probe politicians private lives too closely here, unless the politician makes a point of it. Most keep their private lives, including religion, family, etc, very private and that is respected for the most part.
Pretty funny. One of our politician hopefuls, Stockwell Day (party leader who couldn't shut his mouth when he should and got the boot from his own party) was, by Canadian standards, extreme right wing. He went the the US of A to meet Newt and hopefully swap notes and get some synergy. He talked in management speak a lot when he wasn't sounding like an idiot. Anyway, when he returned he looked somewhat in shock and didn't say much at all. I expect Newt thought this "right-wing" canuck was a pinko-commie.
This might give you some idea of why Dubya's "approval" rating in canada approaches zero. The mouse often measures such things when he lives by an elephant. The party in power (Liberal, but actually centrist in position currently) had to threaten its members to keep them from bad mouthing dubya (they kept calling him a moron amongst other things) cause it was making weak relations even worse.
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Well, as a bona fide Canadian, I can only speak from a selfish point of view. I'm glad we have the health care that we do have. My health issues have mandated my using our health system extensively and I figure that there's dozens and dozens of other countries where if I'd have been a resident, I would have died years ago. Here, I'm alive and thriving with my own business. I might well have done the same down in the US, but my understanding is that getting full health assistance in the US means that you're too poor to pay for any of it, so then it's free, otherwise you're on the hook for vast amounts of money.
Of course, if you've got the cash, then better/faster medical assistance is at hand, up here or down there, but that's the same with most everything in our North American society.
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Upscale writes:

Or any other.
Charlie Self "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." Thomas Jefferson
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On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:01:31 -0400, "G.E.R.R.Y."

The reason taxpayers don't get the same is because taxpayers have to live in the real world. Businesses can't afford to spend money left and right, they have to make a profit and they have to offer comparable benefits and pay to their competitors. In cases like the bus drivers or the dock workers from the strike last year in California, these are government jobs and the unions see government jobs as bottomless money pits. Unions want their employees to have superior income and benefits (mostly so more people will be come union members).
It just doesn't work that way. Everyone has to compete and a company can only afford to pay what they can pay.
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That's rubbish. There are many industries that get free healthcare benefits.

That's exactly the point that I was making. Society has decided who makes what and that a lot of the pay rates are way out of whack with so-called professionals. You personally seem to think that they are worth almost nothing whereas I think politicians, lawyers, and many other "professions" should be worth a lot less than they are paid. That's my personal opinion.

They're already at the bottom. I also think that education is highly overrated as a criterion for determining pay levels. I am sorry that you seem to see something intrinsically wrong with people who have very little wanting more from a society that rewards some others obscenely.
Corporations, big business executives, and politicians who control society with their bottom-line mentality all have a vested interest in keeping poor people poor. They don't have much buying power or political savvy. Witness the widening gap in North America between the working poor and the wealthy especially in the last thirty years or so.
The people at the bottom end are not your enemy. Don't let TPTB propagandise you into thinking that they are.
Gerry
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:27:30 -0400, "G.E.R.R.Y."

Really? Name one that provides 100% health coverage for not only the employee but the employees entire family. That means the employee doesn't pay one penny in health co-pay or insurance costs.
We'll wait.
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Sorry, you had some problem with the 100% figure. While I'm sure there are people who do have 100% coverage, I can't name any off the top of my head but there are MANY who come *very* close. So, I guess you *can* piss farther than me.
Some get 80% or 90% paid by the employer and the insured employees pay the difference, but the WHOLE families are also covered. There is usually a $50 or a $75 deductible on the first medical event of the year. Certain levels of dentist, orthodontist, and optical coverage are included. Teachers and civil servants are some that come easily to mind. Auto workers among others have first-rate benefits as well. All of the above also have good retirement benefits packages.
There, you didn't have to wait too long.
Gerry
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$13? $16? What is your location? Here in Alabama I know nurses making less than that!
Gary
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Gary35619 states:

What kind of nurses? RNs and LPNs are on widely varying pay scales, and my recent experience tells me most nurses are LPNs, not RNs.
Charlie Self "It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
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LPN?
Low Pressure Nurse?
Large Prehistoric Nurse?
Low Paid Nurse?
Let's Party Nurse?
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Now, y'all know damned well that's a Licensed Practical Nurse.
I have known (in the biblical sense ) some of these erstwhile companions of the medical trade - and found them to be perfectly suitable to the task at hand. Of course, this is all past tense - as is most of my life.
YMMV (Lord, I miss seeing that here).
I'i'll agree up front that the licensing is suspec t.On Sun, 4 Apr

Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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mp asks:

Licensed practical nurse. Two year course. Registered nurse: I think currently a 4 year course, used to be 3.
Charlie Self "It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
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Not necessarily. SWMBO is a surgical nurse, and got her RN with two years in college. The frightening thing she told me is that to get one's nursing license, one only has to score 50 % on the licensing exam.
John
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JP Lipe responds:

Ouch. Watched 60 Minutes last night and that was scary enough. OK. My mother was an RN, but she started in, IIRC, 1931, maybe 1930, with 3 years at Yonkers General Hospital as a training field. Got a granddaughter who is an LPN, 2 year course. My mother was in NY, Kathy in VA, but both seem to have fairly stringent licensing standards. Mom retired, many years ago now, as acting adminstrator (would not title her "administrator" because she lacked a BS). She was also nursing services director and a major motivator of the campaign to build a new hospital, helping collect an awful lot of money in a few years. The hospital board's gratitude extended so far that they didn't cancel her health coverage over and above Medicare for the first year she was retired.
The blessings of Westchester County and environs.
Long time ago now. Charlie Self "It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
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Charlie Self wrote:

RNs take a national registry board test. It's the same everwhere with the possible exception of California, but they have reciprocity with the rest of the country. Dentists and PAs have to recredential when they cross state lines. RNs just fill out a paper and pay the charge to get state credentials.
Dave in Fairfax
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JPLipe wrote:

I know several people who flunked the exam who wished that were so.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@XXXXcarolina.rr.com
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On 05 Apr 2004 04:03:33 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (JPLipe) brought forth from the murky depths:

Q: What do you call a man who leaves medical school with a grade of "D-"?
A: Doctor.
Half of the dotors out there graduated in the bottom half of their classses.
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Of course they did...it would be impossible to state otherwise, on the other hand the other half of the doctors out there graduated in the top half of their classes.
--
Jon Down
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Holy Crap! That many? Next thing you know you'll be telling me that they were below average too. Damn, that is scary! Ed
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