12 volt lithium battery drill/impact driver- recommendations?

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As to lithium batteries yay or nay. Looking for a lighter drill for med/lig ht duty. This 62 yr old with a dicey shoulder doesn't like holding a 18v nimh makita (6lbs) for doing the job. Gee, you go online and look at the f eedback on amazon and you'd think that between the dicey batteries,the wobb ly and poorly clamping(the bits)chucks that all the makers can't make a dec ent drill (and impact driver). TIA Pat
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On 11/15/2013 8:26 PM, patrick wrote:

Try a 10 or 12v model they are pretty powerful. I have a hitaci, I would recommend it for driving screws as I bought the drill and impact. I use the impact for driving.. light and very nice.
The drill is light duty.
Or Milwakee, I have not seen dewalt really come to the table on Lithium, and smaller units.
--
Jeff

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patrick wrote:

Milwaukee 12V tools, the impact driver and the screwdriver great, use them daily in my job. Looking at the drill as the next acquisition.
--
PV




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On 11/15/2013 7:26 PM, patrick wrote:

Where to start...
If you go Li-ion, voltage is not going to matter. All of the Li=ion batteries are small and light weight as compared to non Li-ion. 18 volt Li-ion is probably lighter in weight than a 12 bolt non Li-ion.
As far as brand, you can't go wrong with Makita, one of the few that still makes a quality tool. The green vs. the white Makita tools is the better choice.
Are you looking for a drill driver or an impact or one of each?
A drill/driver is going to require you to hold on to the drill and brace for the torque. On the other side of the coin is the impact that typically had 4 times the torque of the similar voltage driver but does not transfer the torque back to you.
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On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 23:04:18 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

Well, the18v Li-ion are lighter than the other 18v batteries, but not enough so that he won't feel the weight of them. As suggested, I have to agree that the 12v tools (of any battery type) are much lighter than their 18v brethren and that's what I'd recommend in this instance.
Of course, the only real solution to this problem is for the OP to go to the store and find out for himself. It's his arms that will answer the question of what to buy.
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On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 02:34:48 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

the only time I use the 18V tools is when I'm driving >3" screws or drilling >3/8" holes. ...give or take. Auger bits kinda need the torque of the 18V drill.

Yes, comparing how they feel in your hand is important. Balance and feel are personal preference.
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I'll have to say that I have never seen a "full sized" Li-ion battery then, although the 15.4v 3.0 amp Li-ion battery on my Festool drill is at least double the size of the 18 v Li-ion on my Bosch impact. Both are feather weights compares to the 12 v Makita 2.6 amp Ni Metal
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On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:26:41 -0800 (PST), patrick

I love my Bosch 12V and 18V drills, drivers, and Impactors. Actually, I have two 18V drills and Impactors (on sale they were cheaper than the batteries).
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On Friday, November 15, 2013 3:26:41 PM UTC-10, patrick wrote:

v nimh makita (6lbs) for doing the job. Gee, you go online and look at the feedback on amazon and you'd think that between the dicey batteries,the wo bbly and poorly clamping(the bits)chucks that all the makers can't make a d ecent drill (and impact driver). TIA Pat
Hi Pat, I use the Dewalt 12 volt max Drill/driver and impact wrench for work and t he 12 volt max impact driver for home use and they put out. Although not d esigned for it the impact wrench will handle 5/8 bolts with no problem.
You definitely want to stick with Li-ion because they hold their charge for a long time and will be ready to go when you need them. Plus they are so light and compact that I can carry the tools and spare batteries with less weight than one Makita 18 volt drill.
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You may want to look at this little impact driver - (Amazon.com product link shortened)84597306&sr=1-2&keywords=black+and+decker+impact+driver . (Note that Amazon has it listed as the 080I ("I") instead of 0801 ("1") ) It's a new item from Black & Decker, released in Sept.-Oct. I was on a small pre-release test team for it and it was well received. One of the other testers did a pretty good write up about it on the Amazon site. It may suit your needs better than a drill/driver. It takes hex screwdriver and drill bits with a spring-loaded chuck resembling an air hose connector. I can easily manipulate it one-handed. I wouldn't try to to install a deck with it or drive into concrete, but all my screwdrivers have been gathering dust since I got it. I ran screws all the way into SPF 2x6s without pilot holes and into piloted sappy SYP with pilot holes - no problem. Then tried cedar; the screws went in, and stopped when I let go of the trigger. No bumping the trigger or running it out and back in to get it where I wanted it. Its low vibration and weight makes it very easy on the hands and wrist. (I am not afilliated with B&D etc, etc. ...) -Joe

patrick wrote:

I don't think the battery chemestry is going to make that big of a difference Pat. I'd suggest you go with a smaller voltage drill. Big difference in the bulkiness and balance of a 12v drill compared to an 18v. You won't go wrong with any of the name brands for light to medium use. Hell - you won't go wrong with Harbor Freight for light to medium work. And - the price will be a hell of a lot less.
What I've started using more and more - but simply for running in screws, is a little 3.4v driver. It's all the power necessary for most things, is a nimble as can be, weighs nothing at all, and fits in all kinds of small places. I don't have drill bits for mine, but they do make them. You'd have to buy the 1/4" shank bits because it does not have a chuck. But these days - I grab it and only go for my 18v for really tough stuff. This little thing is a winner. --------- (Sorry for duplicate post that may show up as a new topic. -J)
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On 11/15/2013 7:26 PM, patrick wrote:

I'm still holding off...heard too many firsthand stories of chargers overheating to be comfortable having one in the house or barn lest I forget to unplug it.
Most recent story of just a couple of months ago--JD dealer here has started carrying Milwaukee, Makita, and another one or two in new dealership showroom besides the Green-branded stuff (the maker of whom for them I'm not positive--need to ask Russ about that). Anyway was looking for the LED lantern attachment to go on the existing Milwaukee NiMH packs I have for winter backup power-outage lighting relief and didn't have any for them, only the Li. So that naturally go to the discussion of same and he mentioned he'd had three packs overheat and nearly start fires on different tools/manufacturers and they had also had trouble with some in the shop. So his take was "don't leave them unattended" -- mine is "not taking a chance" at least yet.
I don't know what the difference really is but there does seem to be a fundamental behavior in that they have a much higher probability of thermal runaway occurring.
$0.02, etc., etc., etc., ...
--


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I've been using recycled lithium batteries for the past couple years in t hose bright chinese LED flashlights (salvaged from dead laptop battery pac ks) and the chargers all seem to take anywhere from 3 to even 8hrs to go th rough a complete charge to 4.02 volts(seldom drawn down past 3.5v). How the heck do the current crop of manufacturers get a battery completely charged in 1/2 hr? I'm guessing you are trading # of cycles for the rapid recharge . Do any of the chargers supplied with a typical drill have a slow charge f unction that might extend the # of cycles b4 the battery shows as defective to an intelligent charger? Regarding the danger of fire- the radio control guys learned the hard way to make a fire resistant charging station such that if the battery (lithiu m ion at that time) attempted suicide, the damage would be contained. I'll probably spring for one of the off brand 18v batteries to allow me t o keep using the drill. Btw- I noticed that dewalt and milwaukee seem to have optional batteries t hat have a higher amp/hr rating. Does the bosch and the makita offer the s ame thing? In the meantime, I'll keep looking for a drill and an impact at a decent p rice. Thanks in advance, Pat
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On 11/16/2013 1:00 PM, patrick wrote:

My Bosch and Festool Li-Ion chargers have a combination of electronics and or fans to monitor the heat being generated during charging. From what I under stand the circuitry in the batter packs is sume what more complex than the standard battery pack. IIRC this circuitry is calibrated to each cell in the battery.
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wrote:

It's no not so much calibration as it is protection. LiIon has a nasty habit of bursting into flames if it's not treated well. Note that all batteries have this problem to one degree or another. Any time you store that much energy in a small place, bad things happen when you let it loose suddenly.
The LiIon chargers are more complex than NiMH (which are more complicated than NiCd) but in this age of ICs, it's all pretty simple and cheap. Laptops do even more because they're doing a lot more charge (as in coulombs) management in the laptop itself. The laptop requires a "gas gauge" to do its thing maximizing run time. This isn't true for a drill, so calibration isn't needed.
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On 11/16/2013 6:31 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

each cell is in range, and not deviating from the others. That is actually where most of the problems are, especially with low end chargers. The better chargers will monitor each cell rather than the pack and if one cell gets higher than the other it will deplete it while bringing the others up. If they are too far out it shuts down.
--
Jeff

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On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 22:40:22 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

You put a chip across each cell, often in the pack.
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On 11/16/2013 5:31 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Pretty good information here however I no longer use Prime Cell. My last rebuild did not last 60 days and their warranty is a pro rated 90 day warranty.
http://www.primecell.com/qli-Ion.htm
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No Dewally, no need for Primecell, yet.
Since I switched to Makita (again, after 25 years), it's amazing how I don't even think about cordless batteries any longer.
--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

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On 11/16/2013 7:58 PM, Swingman wrote:

Seriously, I replaced that prime cell rebuild 5 months after they rebuilt it, and with a new one from Batteries Plus. Came with a 1 year warranty. There is one near you, Beechnut and 610 when the time comes.
However the Li-Ion may have to come from Makita.
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My Makita batteries don't last long at all. I don't use the drills anymore because I got tired of buying batteries.
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