Tom Tom

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yes. What it should say is junction ahead. As a warning. And keep 'exit' for the one you need to take.

[T i m]

Without a doubt, like any 'tools' they take a bit of getting used to to use properly / efficiently. I generally use the visual and audio prompts but on the bike it was just visual (I would glance at it as we approached a junction where it wasn't obvious where we were going and take the hint it offered).

;-)

We were recovered from Leek back to Nth London (clutch splines wore out on the BM) and I set my Garmin up alongside that of the AA lorry's version (it was also a Garmin but rebadged). It was interesting to see them both reading the exact same things and giving prompts about the same tings at the same times. /Except/, after many miles of them both being silent, his burst out with something like 'Go straight ahead for

70 miles' and made us all jump! ;-)

That would be interesting.

According to Mapsource, the longest section between here and daughter in Scotland is off the M6 so close to yours:

"Take the A75 ramp to the left towards B7076/Dumfries/Gretna/South West Scotland/Stranraer, 93.2 miles"?

Cheers, T i m

[S Viemeister]

You have good taste... Try visiting in May - lovely long days, and the midges don't generally wake up til June.

[Roger Chapman]

I have an appalling memory for everyday events so am not sure I remember the finer points but two aspects on my TomTom I can remember are:

1. On motorways I get a wakeup call at about two miles distant "exit ahead" and

1. Again on motorways I get a "keep right" if there is another motorway branching off to the left and I am fairly sure that in such circumstances it was "junction ahead" as Dave would like.

I think it must have been the Nuvi that told me to keep going for 70 (?*) miles when driving south (and then west) on one of the shortest motorways in the country - the M606 from the outskirts of Bradford to the M62.

*I am not sure if I remember the exact distance correctly as 70 miles would have to include other motorway junctions as well as the ignored M606/M62.

[T i m]

Why thank you. ;-)

Yes, so we now know. ;(

We asked the warden at the Fort William campsite if he was a local and if so what was the secret to avoiding midge bites. Re rolled up his sleeve to expose a fairly well bitten arm and said "When I find out I'll be rich". ;-)

To be fair it wasn't so bad once we had learned where not to be and when not to be there (as you say, those sort of months and at dusk, by water / trees and when it is calm).

Cheers, T i m

[Roger Chapman]

snip

The actual problem with the summit was that it ate track points. As a hill walker (and competent navigator) I bought a gps to record where I had been, not to take me where I was going, and back in 2000 I had to save the track up to 3 times in a single walk which lost much of the detail including the time stamps. On the shorter walks I do now it would still have been a problem. Garmin eventually brought out a new summit and abandoned support for the software on the earlier model which couldn't use the version in the new model.

No, single track roads as in narrow country lanes. It was only occasionally that the Nuvi decided a green lane was a more appropriate route.

TomTom claim their timings are based on real average speeds and I would think that could well be true. With my Nuvi that could not be the case for minor roads. I don't know how they actually decided on the average speed they gave to particular sections of road but they clearly didn't have a clue about the hazards of driving on single track roads where it is essential to be able to stop in half the distance you can see.

My TomTom is not totally immune. It has on one occasion led me down a single track road that turned to grass. There may have been tarmac under the grass but as it was raining cats and dogs and the road was descending I thought it best to be prudent to retreat and leave the area (where I had been walking) by the same single track road I had come in by. On another occasion it took me over a 6' 6" wide ancient packhorse bridge with solid parapets that would have been impassible for a large car.

As a hill walker I prided myself that I could navigate to a far better accuracy in thick mist than a gps could achieve under SA. If visibility is 20 feet knowing where you are to within 200 yards is not much help.

At that price buying an a new map for say £60 doesn't make sense does it?

My Garmin handhelds never had usable maps (roads as broad straight lines and that was about it). The Nuvi I am fairly sure didn't have a free map update and the free traffic thingy that came with it only worked on major routes.

I bought another Garmin handheld despite the problems I had with the summit but there is only so much I will take so when the Nuvi proved to be so poor I decided that was it.

I still have my Vista C which was a considerable improvement on the summit but still prone to losing lock without a broad view of the sky. The MM adventurer is supposed to be much better in that respect (as indeed are later Garmins) and comes with some free mapping at 1:50,000. Now if only I could get it to use my earlier versions of MM digital mapping and other suppliers maps I would be very pleased. I have a mixture of Fugawi and Tracklogs as well as MM.

have been top of the range at one time.

I have used NIMH batteries in the Garmin handhelds but the MM adventurer has a built in lithium battery. It remains to be seen how flexible that is going to be compared with removable batteries.

I don't usually use my signature outside of the walking group but this time I have left it in. :-)

[Davey]

I hate TomTom because they have terrible instructions for driving in our village. They instruct lorry drivers to go the wrong way, they don't tell them about the best way to approach our road, so making them attempt a 150 deg turn outside our house, and they ignore a one-way street that has been there for years. I have tried to correct them on their website, for which I had to create an account, but drivers still follow the same wrong-headed instructions, relying entirely on their stupid TomToms instead of using a map. Grrrrr.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

And you can guarantee the map used will have up to date one way streets? And how will that map tell them 'the best way to approach your road'?

[S Viemeister]

The shepherd at the farm across the road from me, claims that Avon's Ski-So-Soft really does work, but needs to be re-applied often. I ordered midge-proof hooded jackets from Canada, so that I can work in the garden without being devoured.

[Roger Chapman]

Have you tried a midge net? (Used with a hat for best effect). It would be much cheaper than a full jacket.

[S Viemeister]

I keep one in my jacket pocket! But I'm very sensitive to midge bites, and I like gardening, so the jacket was a worthwhile investment. I can wear short sleeves in warm weather, and still not be bitten.

[T i m]

Oooer, not good. Again, can't say I've ever seen that on any of mine but then I've not had that specific model nor done a lot of walking with them. I have done some and a fair bit of cycling and I can't think of a time when I've ever lost any info?

This was for example the altitude display for a tracklog from Scotland to home.

had every logged transition for the entire journey, showing speed, direction, altitude and location etc and that would have stayed there till it was overwritten (and could still be on there now as it happens).

We have also used the 'Trackback' feature to do just that. ;-)

We have also used the 'Man overboard' feature to mark the position of the car when parked in a remote / unfamiliar back street or to re-locate our tent on a large camp / rally site. Never not done what was requested even once. That's probably why I've kept all my Garmins over the years (except the III+ as it was pretty well directly replaced with the V that was in the same chassis but had more memory and auto routing).

Again, not nice but not 'uncommon', especially these days. In fact I'm sure the size of the American market with their disposable attitude to kit and 'over the wall' attitude to customer after sales support may migrate to UK support. That said UK support has always been pretty good and 'reasonable' in a commercial sense to me. YMMV of course.

So that's ok then if you had selected shortest and had not selected 'Lorry' or somesuch (I'm not familiar with the options on your particular models).

On my Nuvi I only have to options of Automobile, Bicycle or Pedestrian. I'm sure it's more on the previous models and a vehicle profile determines what road types it can and can't take (like low bridges or very narrow roads etc).

On the Mapsource PC software you can 'tweak the typical speed profile for each 'limit'. So, I might set 60mph as an average for me for motorways.

Understood and see above.

Quite (discretion being the better part of valour).

I'm pretty sure that had we ever been guided thus we would remember it.

Indeed (under those circumstances). But even then, 'Trackback' was able to show me I was driving back on the wrong side of the road (when it was a dual-carriageway). ;-)

No, it doesn't. It did when they were ~£400 and maps were £35 (and could be used across several devices). ;-)

Garmin Lifetime maps could be worthwhile though if you have an up-market device. (£79.99

Ok.

Depending on when you bought it re a new map release. You often you get prompted when the web updater.

Ok.

Quite.

I've noticed that on older models and sometimes make use of the external aerial connector and a mini mag-mount ant. Especially handy if in a van with an overhanging body or heavily built up / wooded areas.

Is that the StarFire system?

That's good (if you are a walker / GeoCacher etc).

I've not really done any of that 'alternate mapping' stuff, nor interfaced any of them with Google earth etc. Most of my trips are too mundane for any of that. ;-)

I think it was nearly £500 retain but cost me nearer £420 from the TCR.

It was pretty good for it's size and was probably the 'dogs' for motorcyclists at the time. Not sure TomTom existed then and it was quite a while before they came up with their waterproof model(s).

(me too, some Eneloop jobbies)

As does my Quest. The others are 12V supply only and with their bigger displays more suited to more 'formal' road trips (where you wouldn't need the portability at the other end).

We had a solar panel on the Tandem cycle trailer and could charge a good batch of AA's at the same time. At the time they fitted the GPS, Fuji DX7 camera, Petzl headlights, Mini Maglites and tent flouro.

Roger Chapman Attempting to master a new computer and failing to master a new gps

Very appropriate ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Roger Chapman]

To be fair the Vista C's performance in this regard is acceptable with walking tracks recorded in full for a weekend away provided the track and/or the gps is switched off while driving between venues.

So that is why the track is showing as London to Dumfries.

With the Vista (and indeed the summit) you can just take a waypoint.

Yes the UK support is good when it comes to repairs. They may well have reflected back across the Atlantic concerns about the summit and been ignored.

Ah but I never dared use anything but the fastest route. I never tried the shortest route but if they had set the parameters properly the ETA would be achievable whichever mode was chosen.

Fastest route Shortest route Avoid motorways Bicycle route Limited speed

You need to be going from one obscure place to another to be at all likely to meet things like that. Having said that in 50 years of motoring, much of it on the UK's less frequented roads, I have never had such a tight fit. That packhorse bridge could well be the only one of its type in regular use by cars. See:

I don't know. In fact I still know very little about this new gps.

I grew up with 1" maps but these days the average walker feels lost without 1:25000 maps and I too have eventually come to appreciate them which is a major change for me as I was very reluctant to switch from 1" to 1:50000 when they first came out even though the 1" in the Highlands could be more than a tad confusing in areas where the surveyors hadn't bothered much with the land above the cloud line.

Walking is usually a very pedestrian pastime. ;-)

I have a variety of NIMH AAs and sufficient to charge up prior to a walking trip so haven;t experimented with in-car charging. Will need to for the adventurer though.

[T i m]

I bought a midge hat (like a lightweight bee keepers hat) and used it once to good effect when breaking camp but then must have left it somewhere. Luckily we went from there to the East side of Scotland (came back home via Perth, County Durham (Beamish), Skeggy etc) and that doesn't seem to be blighted so?

Cheers, T i m

[dennis]

tomtom do a specific version for trucks, maybe the truckers don't buy it?

[dennis]

They are not always up to date. I have had to correct a few errors on mine, missing islands, islands that aren't there, turn restrictions that are wrong, one way streets that aren't, etc. There are quite a lot of speed limits wrong too, but I tend not to correct those as it means the safety camera limits are wrong if I don't. I think people that rely on the safety camera warnings need to get caught.

[ARWadsworth]

And there was that time you added the Nuremburg ring.

[T i m]

Doh, that could just be a typo on my part. Yes, it would make more sense t'other way round (that big lump gives it away eh? ;-) )

However, it only goes to show how it can be read by someone who is taking note. ;-)

Filename changed.

>>> We have also used the 'Man overboard' feature to mark the position of

I think it's the same thing but the 'Man Overboard' function is supposed to be quicker (in case a man really had gone overboard etc). You can rename the waypoint anything you like afterwards ... like 'Cheese shop' or 'Pub'. ;-)

Oh? I regularly use both Fastest and Shortest, depending on my need.

Indeed (as mine are). What I don't understand here is are you saying the 'initial' ETA isn't achievable (die, when you set off it says ETA

16:00 but you actually get there at 17:00 with it still saying 16:00 or that it initially gives 16:00 but then slips during the journey to say 17:00?). I would say with mine I know I've done the journey quicker or slower by how much better or worse I am against the starting ETA.

die, We used to Ennui to get to a Hospital (routine visit but not been there for years) for a 12:00 app and as we set off at 11.05 it gave us an ETA of 11:45. We got stuck behind a couple of lorries (who were a bit slower off the mark at each junction) and so we actually arrived at it's revised ETA of 11:50?

The Ennui also has an 'Eco' routing mode (but I think you have to give it some vehicle params and as we use it in several different ones).

We may not have done that then but have done quite a bit of 'shortest' with no issues. Maybe that just depends where you are when you do that. Mind you, we have explored some pretty small roads in the Peak District and Cornwall but only because we were following the road signs. ;-)

I think there is a later generation of more sensitive receiver. I know the Nuvi will easily pickup satellites when on the passenger seat whereas my older ones prefer to be in good view of more sky from the dash etc.

I've still got a fair collection of Landranger and Explorer OS maps as we used to get one whenever we were going or at a new area. I've also got some aeronautic charts (from PP mate) and some marine navigation charts (from Dad).

Hehe.

Cheers, T i m

[Roger Chapman]

snip

Tried both on the TomTom late last night using a trip to hospital I have to make next week. Fastest was 11 minutes, shortest was 17 minutes (and the route I would have had to take before they opened the 30 year delayed Bingley bypass). Before being allowed the shortest route I got a warning about the perils of using the shortest route rather than the fastest route.

The ETA was continuously updated and in normal circumstances on classified roads didn't vary very much. The problem came into sharp focus as soon as a single track road was reached. If the single track leg took say 10 minutes to cover then the ETA would have receded by a similar amount. Some of these short cuts were nonsensical. Indeed on one occasion I had to overtake a lorry twice as it had been considerably quicker taking the long way round than I had been on the 'short cut'. Probably all of them had a longer way round that was quicker.

It is a long time since I spent much time in the Peak District. Most of my troubles with the Nuvi were in Wales but I doubt whether this particular problem was confined to Wales.

Just checked the contents of my map box - 1" -77, 1:50,000 - 36,

1:25,000 (large) - 17, (small) - 13. Perhaps a dozen or more maps of mostly other scales hidden away elsewhere.

;-)

One curious aspect of my TomTom is the 'keep right' instruction approaching Keswick from the east on the A66. The feature to be avoided is a conventional roadside lay-by. It would perhaps be understandable if it was an oxbow lay-by.

I have been led to believe that all sat-navs suffer from a multitude of wrongly coded junctions where some side street which might be no more than a farm lane is considered the major road prompting a 'turn right' or whatever instruction when in reality all you are doing is driving round a bend in the road. The reverse of course is potentially more dangerous if you don't watch out for the road signs.

[tim....]

I had a paper map once that showed that as a motorway

tim