Tips on using end-feed plumbing fittings?

[Lobster]

See reply to John Rumm!

You should see the flux start to bubble

At the moment, 15mm with straight connectors.

Thanks David

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Are you applying the solder to the same side as the flame? Because the flame will melt the solder even if the fitting isn't hot enough. So the solder should be applied somewhere out of the flame.

The flux will melt before the correct temperature is achieved, but by this time will have done its work.

You don't want the flame too close, so use the blue part. And move it around to heat all the fitting evenly. A tip is the blue flame will change to a greenish colour when the copper is up to heat.

IMHO, it's best to use an aggressive flux. Then wipe the pipes clean with a damp cloth after they have cooled.

[Lobster]

I'm withdrawing the flame just before applying the solder.

Isn't the blue part of the flame unburnt gas though? I don't follow that one, as my problem seems to me that for whatever reason I'm not getting up to temperature quick enough!

David

[Chris Bacon]

The blue is burning gas, just not as hot as the outside of the cone (if evident). If the gas is not burning properly you will get a yellow, perhaps evidently smoky, flame. You said that the torch seems to "give a good blast" so I'm a little confused as to why it's not heating the joint fast.

[Lobster]

You and me both! ;-)

David

[Dave Plowman (News)]

No - it's simply not the hottest part. But still plenty hot for the job in hand and not so localised as the very hot part which has a name I've forgotten. ;-)

The speed doesn't much matter.

[John Rumm]

I usually only go about half the width of the flame - so that it is half on the pipe and half on the fitting.

If it is any encouragement, of the last few hundred joints I have soldered, the only ones I ever had leak were a yorkshire fitting (due to a pinhole flaw in the manufacture), and a very old heavy weight fitting that firstly I could not be sure was totally dry, and secondly had so much metal in it my (ailing) blowlamp could not heat it fast enough. All the end feed stuff I have found to be 100% reliable.

I recently changed blowtorch because my old wickes one was developing a small catalogue of problems. I got one of these cheap on ebay:

has a propane canister and very focused flame which makes it easy to get lots of heat exactly where you want it.

[John Rumm]

I tend to focus 70% of the torch time on one connection first, then once hot enough to flow, play it over the next socket on the fitting to solder while feeding solder into the first. By the time the first is soldered the next is then ready and so on.

Perhaps this is the time for us to make a quick video of one being done so you can see what to expect?

[John Rumm]

The tip of the "inner cone"?

It does if you take so long all the flux is gone, and the pipe has started oxidizing in the air.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Ah - right.

Doesn't much matter as not being critical to within a reasonable time?

[George Tingsley]

Im even more convinced this is the crux of lobsters problem

1-1/2 minutes is far to long 15-20 seconds should be long enough even with a small blowlamp on 15mm as you have said a video would be a good idea

of course it could be the solder being used I have never used lead free so don't know if this is more difficult to use

[Stuart]

There is a wee video on the bernzomatic download page but I'm not sure that it'll be of much help

Stuart

[Lobster]

That would certainly be the business! (Actually, didn't someone suggest a uk.d-i-y video collection a while ago?)

Would that be at:

can't see any video there...?

David

[Stuart]

Its in the .co.uk site

[Dave Plowman (News)]

With decent flux it's much the same - just melts at a slightly higher temperature. Shouldn't cause problems if you're used to making end feed joints.

[Ed Sirett]

It strikes me that short of seeing a video of what you 're doing I can't really say. But if the blow lamp is producing a 10-15mm diameter of blue flame it must be heating the pipe well.

I'd say that you are, maybe, over-heating the fitting and the solder is not taking and that you should apply the solder much earlier.

I try to heat the pipe from the 'back side' if possible and put the solder in from the front. As soon as the front solder starts to melt (I'm gently rubbing the end of the solder on the pipe to find out as I heat the pipe) I remove the heat and start to run the solder in and around. Sometimes a little more heat is needed.

HTH

[Ed Sirett]

Agreed. It also tends to have less of a pasty transition between solid and liquid.

[Lobster]

Well, having run out, I've just ordered a 25-pack of 15mm straight connectors in tomorrow's Screwfix delivery, so I'm going to have one more concerted effort to get this right. Watch this space!

David

[Dave Plowman (News)]

As a matter of interest, what flux and solder are you using?

[George Tingsley]

Ok thanks But of course lobster is not used to making end feed joints Be interesting to know what solder and flux he was using I see you have already asked this