End feed fittings and re-doing joints

[PM]

Hi all,

After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling up outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the process!) and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does this mean that the joint was good? I guess the solder was balling up on a dirty bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean and flux another few mm to stop this happening?

How do I know when enough solder has been taken in?

I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I guess I still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to re-use the old fitting.

My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at getting the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?

Thanks Pete

[The Natural Philosopher]

Almost certainly.

If it worries you. Solder blobs outside simply mean you have put too much solder on. The joint should still be good.

When there is a bright ring visible all the way round the end of the outer part of the joint.

Thats fine. do reflux, and juts re-heat and add a little more.

Should be fine. I find a less than full blast heat for longer is good. The little tirchs are pretty uselksss - use a big one.

[PM]

Thanks for the answers NP. How big is a 'big' torch - I don't want to have to lug round gas cylinders! Mine is a simple screw-on valve+burner onto the top of the canister.

[Dave Fawthrop]

|Hi all, | |After a suspected failed end-feed joint I made - the solder was balling up |outside the joint - I pulled it apart (and bent the tube in the process!) |and found that the end of the tube had solder all the way round. Does this |mean that the joint was good? I guess the solder was balling up on a dirty |bit of tube outside the joint if you see what I mean - should I clean and |flux another few mm to stop this happening? | |How do I know when enough solder has been taken in? | |I had already soldered another branch of the tee, this has of couse been |taken apart, is it OK to leave the solder on there? I've heated it and |removed the excess with a cloth, I can get the new fitting on OK. I guess I |still need to flux to get a good joint to the new tee. I'm not going to |re-use the old fitting. | |My torch is butane/propane mix, this seems OK if a little slow at getting |the joint to temperature. Is this the correct torch to use?

I had to cut out a section and replace with compression fittings. I blamed lead free solder, which IMO is cr*p. As I was doing heating, lead free is not necessary.

[Andy]

Always clean the inside of the endfeed fitting with wire wool as well as the outside of the copper pipe. I didn't clean the inside of the endfeed fittings at first when doing my CH and had a couple of failures. Also, that flux that comes in the beige round flat can, "Tempflux" or whatever ( "The Mild Flux" ) really is mild and there are much more effective fluxes out there ( "EverFlux" for instance ), though some may frown on the corrosive nature of aggressive fluxes, especially if used on gas runs or not wiped off the outside of joints.

Andy.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yup, but there are ones that talke a 5" cylinder and ones that take a

10" cylinder. Get the bigger one.

[PM]

I use a tool with 15mm/22mm wire brush for that, works very well and doesn't moult into the fitting.

The flux I've got is called powerflow, don't know how acidic it is but it brightens the outside of the tube if left on there cold. The solder is the same brand. I will be doing gas pipe in a bit, I'm going to use solder ring connectors for that which I seem to have more success with :-)

[PM]

You can still get leaded solder. I'm doing heating as well but my solder is also lead-free just because it is more universal.

If any of my joints leak I'm going to blame the solder as well :-)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Pretty well all DIY ones are suitable - the reason for a separate cylinder type that plumbers use is running costs.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Size of the gas canister makes no difference. I installed my heating with whatever blowlamp was cheapest in Wickes, and it handled everything up to 28mm Tee's without any problem.

I can't claim I noticed much difference in handling between leaded solder which I used on the heating and gas pipework, and unleaded which I used on the water supply pipework.

As others have said, getting the pipe ends and insides of the fittings bright shiney copper and fluxed is really important. If I did think I'd messed up a joint, I never reused the fitting, although that was well before price of copper went sky high.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I know it's good advice - and I do it too, but for an experiment I got the grottiest bit of old tube I could find in the depths of my cellar and worst end feed fitting - both dirty and green - and soldered them using Everflux. Took them apart and they were perfectly tinned. So aggressive flux is pretty aggressive. Of course it might baulk at grease, etc. With a non aggressive flux cleanliness is next to godliness, though.