Breaking a soldered joint

[mike]

Has anyone heard of someone rupturing a soldered copper pipe joint by deflecting the pipe (e.g. to clear an interference)?

Just curious.

[Doug Miller]

Not a properly soldered joint, no.

Poorly soldered joints, yes, I've done it several times -- one of the previous owners of this house (or someone he hired) wasn't nearly as skilled with a torch as he thought he was. Some of his joints that I've taken apart had hardly any solder inside them at all.

[jamesgangnc]

Yes, if the joint was weak to begin with.

[George]

Only if the joint was poorly soldered. I broke a joint one time just by brushing against a run. It blew apart and there was just a small circle of solder right at the edge of the fitting.

[Twayne]

Yes. It can happen rather easily but is generally unusual if the soldering was properly accomplished. It can happen more easily if the deflection were done multiple times, looking for the "best way" and things like that. I'd try to avoid it though: even the experts miss getting a perfect solder every time.

HTH,

Twayne

[clare]

With a properly "sweated" joint you will NEVER break it. If the solder job is just a "glue job" with a cold bead run around the end of the outer peice, you may not even need to look at it the wrong way to have it fail.

I've never seen an "expert" screw up a solder joint on new copper with leaded solder. The new lead free crap is a different story!

[Doug Miller]

You misspelled "impossible"...

If the joint was properly soldered, the pipe will bend *long* before the joint will break.

[JIMMIE]

,

I think the biggest cause of joints like this is people holding the torch too close to the work. I guess its a little counter intuitive to the novice that this isnt the hotest part of the flame.

Jimmie

[Tony]

I also have a difficult time with the lead free solder. Not saying this is right or wrong, but a couple times I used leaded solder to tin the joints and knocked/wiped any extra out of the fitting. Then sweated the joint with the lead free solder and it goes easy. Not much of a big deal since it was in a house from the 60's and all the other joints were with lead bearing solder anyway.

[mm]

Except that when you knocked off the the extra leaded solder it landed in the lungs of the baby lying on the basement floor.

Just kidding.

[Doug Miller]

I bet you guys are both using propane torches.

Switch to MAPP. It's *much* hotter. Making joints with lead-free solder with a MAPP torch is easier than using leaded solder with propane.

[clare]

Hey, I'll agree mapp is better than propane, but I'll still choose to dissagree about the leadfree solder. Even with an acetylene torch leadfee solder is NASTY compared to good old leaded solder and soldering paste. And an acetlene torch is even hotter than MAPP. I generally use MAPP with a high-swirl bernzomatic.

[Tony]

It's been many years since I've needed to sweat any joints but I'll try Mapp next time. To make things worse, my old Berzomatic torch developed a leak I couldn't fix and the newer low end torches are much smaller with less heat output than the old ones, (although I haven't used the new small one for sweating a fitting). I have a Mapp torch and gas and it gets hot, I've used it to solder a stainless steel sink, which I didn't know could be done. Lot's of heat, the right flux, and silver solder. Normal flux will burn and be useless before the SS is hot enough. I have also found that using the Mapp torch with propane will give off a lot more heat than even the old torches.

[Tony]

I think my MAPP torch is different than yours. Mine gets 4 small flames within the flame. It's noisy as hell at the right setting! And I can get a lot more heat out of that torch even using propane.

[Stormin Mormon]

Home Depot has a mapp gas torch kit (includes the first bottle of Mapp) for about $40. By Bernzomatic. Really good tool.

Can also burn propane, though slightly less hot.

If you wire it up properly, so the flame is pointing in a safe direction. The HD mapp torch can help warm the interior of a panel van with broken heater fan. Though, I'd never suggest anyone do that.

[mm]

I don't have a MAPP torch, only a propane torch with MAPP gas.

I suppose it's hotter than propane, but I can't tell how much.

They didnt' sell simple MAPP torches, only those with built in piezo-electric lighters, so I wouldn't buy one. Maybe I'll get one used some day.

[Stormin Mormon]

The reviews are good. Me, I like the one I got. Hot and fast, just like my.....

[clare]

The new high swirl "turbo torches" hre smaller than the old BernzoMatic torches but put out a LOT more useable heat. New on Propane is almost as good as the old on MAPP, but not quite.

[clare]

That is the "high swirl" or "turbo-torch.

Excellent torch. But an acetylene torch is still hotter. The acetylene torch is also heavy, clumsy, and dirty untiull you get it going right - I use my Mapp TurboTorch for virtually all plumbing.

[clare]

Trust me - you WANT the built in lighter. Just squeeze and go. Let go, and it goes out. Squeeze again and you have fire. Safes a LOT of relatively expensive MAPP gas.