Recycling - how do others cope?

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Because the people who told you to rinse them haven't considered the whole life cost of the process. Their motivation is to reduce landfill, or to recycle x% of household waste. They don't actually care about recycling 'per se'.
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"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
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--
geoff

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[15 lines snipped]

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I'm well aware of that. But unless the materials *are* recycled, then it is a waste of everyone's time and money. And if the recycled materials are more expensive than new ones, then the entire process is pointless.
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"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
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Why does recycled goods have to be cheaper than non-recycled? I'm not someone who worships the environment, but I can see the sense in reducing the amount of waste we just bury into the ground. There is a cost to this, hence recycling may not be cheapest. There is also the thing that some things have a finite resource (oil as a major one). Why bury goods which requre oil to produce (eg. plastics) when they can be recycled? Surely its better to do that than just hide it in the ground?
Personally, your posts almost sound like a troll who likes baiting people who recycle. ;)
D
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Because the costs reflect the difficulty of obtaining whatever it is (or at least, should). If obtaining 'x' new is cheaper than obtaining it by recycling, then the recycling is pointless. Take paper. Recycled paper is more expensive than new, not as good quality and requires nasty chemicals (bleach) for recycling. Where's the point in that? Ditto glass. There is no market for glass cullet in the UK. All recycled glass has to be used for landfill or road surfacings. Where's the point in that?
There are exceptions, such as aluminium cans, so long as you neither wash them out, nor drive them to the recycling centre.
The situation is *much* more complicated than "recycling good, new bad".
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"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
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I don't think this can be true. Otherwise why would they bother to have separate containers for different colours, and make a fuss about the type of glass that can be put in.
Ditto for plastics.
I have seen on TV recycled material being made into laminate sheet. I don't think there was any subsidy involved, but a principal factor in the economics must be the integrety of the recycle material. Its obviously no good if its contaminated with unsuitable plastic.
IMO part of the problem of getting the economics right is to ensure only the right stuff goes in the recycle bank in the first place. From my observations some people take no notice at all about what should be put in, with a negative impact on viability since someone has to sort it out again.
Roger
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writes:

http://www.envirowise.gov.uk/envirowisev3.nsf/TextKey/MBEN4PBHQX?OpenDocument
"Producing glass using recycled cullet is more energy efficient than producing glass from basic raw materials (typically by about 30%)."
"Except in more remote areas, where transport costs may be dominant, the economics are usually in favour of recycling. The key issue is one of cullet quality."
http://www.wrap.org.uk/publications/FibreGlassInsulationSept03.doc
"The UK production of glass fibre insulation is around 150,000 tonnes per year and currently all the glass fibre manufacturers are using recycled glass as a feedstock."
http://www.edinburgh-crystal.co.uk/story015.asp
"Currently about 30% of glass melted was originally cullet and so the re-melting process is fairly waste free."
http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/waste/strategy/mdg/report/4.htm
"It is estimated that there is approximately twice the capacity for clear and amber cullet usage within the container glass industry than is currently collected."
So - plenty of uses for cullent (not just what you'd expect) along with currently twice the capacity of clear/amber cullet compared to what they're collecting. THEY NEED MORE!
D
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Err, yes, but I doubt they use supermarket bottle bank cullet.

Blimey. I stand corrected. That's what you get for reading the popular media.
(As it happens we recycle glass anyway, because the bottles are too heavy to go in the plastic sacks, but that's beside the point.)
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The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
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writes:

Seems that there's too much green cullet though... we import so many green bottles of wine/lager and use so little of it ourselves. Maybe that's what gets used for road surfaces? ;)
D
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David Hearn wrote:

It is (also the green seems to get a lot of brown added at some stage). I wonder why glass fibre insulation isn't greenish though.
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Chris
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Huge wrote:

I aggree. I used to dutifully put my recycling in the green bin provided (all in one scheme) and took my bottles to the bank. Then I heard over 1000 tons of recycled stuff in my county (Hampshire) had been seen dumped in a landfill anyway because they didn't know what to do with it. Then the council put the tax up some enormous percentage, so I thought stuff it...
Another problem with these schemes is if you have a small flat or similar with no garden, where do you store all these seperate bags/bins?
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Here we have the recycle box scheme, collections fortnightly. It is a very labour intensive operation using a special lorry with compartments for each type of material. The operatives have to sort the materials into various bins on the lorry with a terrific racket of breaking glass, clattering tins and boxes being thrown about.
When the scheme started I put my stuff in the box but they didn't empty it. Apparently the contents (clean) did not exactly fit their criteria. So now I don't put anything out as there is a recyling centre at the main supermarket and I just take it with me when I go there.
The local council is of a different colour to the government and much of their effort is spent in political point scoring. The recyling scheme selected was probably chosen to provide the maximum political return.
Roger
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Bluestars wrote:

A similar system here - one big box, but put cans/bottles in their own bags. Currently the box lives in the kitchen, but when I finsh the cupboard under the stairs in the downstairs bathroom it'll go in there.
2 weeks almost exactly fills the box - mostly with junk mail and newspaper.
It's not really much easier than taking it to the supermarket each week, except they take car batteries, oil and old clothes as well.
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Chris
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We have very few cans and packets to put in our green recycle bin (emptied once a month and rarely full even though I pick up cans and plastic bottles from the street), the brown bin is emptied weekly and has even less in it) because we don't buy pre-proecessed foods.
That's one answer to the problem.
Another is that empty cans and packets don't take up any more room than full ones, if space can be found for the full ones why not the empty ones?
But of course cans are easy to flatten and then they take up a very small amount of room. The same applies to packets. Paper is flat to start with.
Glass bottles aren't of course, we use a crate outside the door and take them to the bottle bank when passing (the council doesn't take them).
Vegetable waste goes in the compost bin.
I don't see that collecting waste for re-cycling is a problem and I applaud all authorites who do it - and those conscientious citizens who comply with the collection schemes.
Mary

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So , are you suggesting I put empty cans back into the cupbards Ive taken them out of , that is store them in with my food?
This is something many old ladies do , especially those who are finding it hard to cope independently and are becoming senile. Ive taken many such a poor soul into a care home because her house had been piled high with cans ( all nicely cleaned) and stacked in the kitchen cupboards next to her food supplies. And all nicely cleaned and stacked across the window sills, and in utility areas etc..
Are you now telling me she was just recycling?
Well, I dont want to end up in care because the council send in their grime team when it looks like my cupboards are bing used for storing empty tins.

I am not disputing they take up little room when laid flat or squashed. But still where do you store them?
I 've never kept a paper more than three days. Its usually burned or put in the normal bin and took out weekly. A sack is taking me several weeks to fill
And the council are requiring that they are given FULL SACKS. I cant just send 'um off come hell or high water fortnightly.
My problem is a storage one caused because I dont generate enough waste quickly enough.
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Don't be silly. I'm saying that you are prepared to store your cans etc. full and don't complain about lack of space yet you're complaining of lack of space to store them empty.

Oh - not old men?
especially those who are finding it

MANY???
I don't believe that you've taken many old women into care because of this. That hyperbole loses you all the waning credibility you had.

I think you said that you had bags supplied? But it might have been someone else.

We don't have them, full stop. No waste.

Contributing to the CO2 layer.

Wasting a resource.

In that case it wouldn't take up much room hanging in an outhouse.

Have you thought about co-operating with your neighbours to fill sacks so that they would be full and removed more quickly?

That doesn't make sense, you know.
No, you don't know. Nor do you want to know.
Life has problems but most of them are soluble. Where there's a will there's a way. You've been offered several solutions by contributors to this ng but you don't seem to want to solve your perceived problem.
You'll just have to live with it.
Mary

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I wasnt being silly, thats what you implied.
I'm saying that you are prepared to store your cans etc.

But as I said earlier, I dont store many cans. I dont eat out of cans. Or drink out of them.
This is getting a bit off topic now but , since you ask:

Mostly old ladies. Men store dirty cans! <g>

And yes despite your disbelief it is many. The problem is quite a common one in the elderly. It vaires in degree ( perhaps because they are a war time generation when recycling was also an issue(?) . I cant say for sure why, but ask any social worker/ community nurse / health visitor and they will tell you its a common symptom. Sometimes houses are stuffed full of papers and rubbish in boxes. You could see it as eccentric, but in old people its often an reason for putting them into care. So the many stands and it was a statement, not hyperbole.

I am supplied with sacks. Thats the problem. The bags are underfoot everywhere I turn. I have nowhere to put them.

I make no excuse. I burn them. I put them on the fire in place of fire lighters. I have few options except to use solid fuel in my home.

I dont have an outhouse. I dont have a utility room. I dont have a garage. I said I have nowhere to put them. And not a lot of available room near the house. I wondered if someone had come up with space saver method of putting these things safely somewhere.

What neighbours? I dont have any. I live in the middle of nowhere. The "curbside" is the main road running at the bottom of my lane which connects several dispersed communities to the main town. hence the dust cart has to come across it and I suppose someone thought it would be a good idea to shove us on the list of stops along the way.

Yes it does make sense. You dont want to understand. I suspect you are putting principle before practicality and fail to realise that some of us are living fairly eco friendly and ssustainable lives already and in fact recycling is creating a problem where previously there was none or a lesser one.
I dont have many cans of food ( two a week maybe) , so I dont have many to recycle. Previously they would go out in the weekly bin (just one bin for collection - and not always full)
Now, they are put into the sack. the sack then sits there waiting to be filled slowly, week by week.
I dont have many newspapers - one on a weekend and maybe a mid week one ( hence I used to burn them on the fire I have to make to heat the house, water and sometimes cook too). Junk mail was shreded and either composted or but in the black sack, depending on how I felt.
Now I have been told to put them in a sack. The sack fills slowly, again its sitting around the kitchen floor. I can barely move with sacks all over the place.

No I havent actually. Most of them have said the same as you - use an outhouse, or garage or utility which I dont have, so living where I do, I have to apply for planning permission for this construction and use up my garden for something I dont want, to store sacks which are not really practical for a cause which is disputable

No. Ive made up my mind. reading the debate here - I am dumping the half dozen cans into the black bin bag next week, putting the papers on the aga, and getting my kitchen back. I will remember in future to make sure I buy even fewer cans than I do now. And since the paper is rubbish anyway, I'll just get a weekly TV mag for the whats on guide and burn it when I've finished with it.
Now thats a solution isnt it?
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anyway, burning paper isn't adding to the net amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, seeing as most of it made from conifer trees. And plenty of new trees are being grown to replace those cut down.
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Chris French, Leeds

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chris French wrote:

It's probably more energy efficient or produces less CO2 to burn the the newspapers in a fireplace/wood-burning stove rather than take them away, and fetch back something else to burn. If you're stuck on solid fuel of course
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Chris
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I think you are confusing two different things here
Sustainable forests and releasing CO2 into the atmosphere
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