I think there is more to life's values than strict economics.
Whether you think recycling is worthwhile just depends on your
outlook on life.
I'm sure you are well aware of all the recycling arguments, but someone has
to pay for the land fill, and if that cost can be put upon the producers
(like supermarkets), then maybe they won't use so much of it and the goods
may become cheaper.
And I don't. Economics is information, providing all the externalities
are figured in. And in the case of recycling, that information tells
us that by-and-large recycling domestic refuse is a waste of time.
"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
Are you sure?
The problem is quantifying all those externalities in money terms.
Environment is one of those externalities in the waste equation yet is hard
to quantify in money terms.
A special sort of modern domestic refuse is abandoned and burnt out cars.
Without factoring in the environment cost, the economics for the local
authority would say they should be left there. However if they were around
your home you might think there was more to life's values than strict
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 18:40:11 +0000 (UTC), Bluestars wrote:
Accountants: Know the cost of everything, the value of nothing.
Even if it does cost more to recycle in makes far more sense to me to
do that than dig stuff out of one hole, use it once and stuff it back
into another. 'Cause that first hole will, not if, will, run dry at
some point in the future. Hopefully before the first hole does run
completely dry the pure economics will make the use recycled materials
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
Depends how big you make the picture. Use of recycled materials
reduces the demand for new raw ones, this delays the time when raw
ones become uneconomic to use.
At present we still rely very heavily on raw materials and don't have
the facilities or, in some cases, the technology to remove this
reliance on raw materials. The time "bought" by using uneconomic
recycled materials now can be used to develop the recycling
infrastructure and the technology that *will* required in the future.
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
How many times do I have to say this?
NO IT DOESN'T!
I do rinse them. They are well clean by the time they get in the sack, but
the sack still stinks. I can smell it. Its a thick , dirty person type smell
, as if I've had a tramp dossing in the kitchen at night.
As for the vermin. Ive already explained that too.
Foxes and cats like noting better ( just out of curiosity) than to get
inside plastic sacks and nose around and pull the contents out.
And mice scratch and bite the bags open just to see what they can find and
to live in (especially paper)
I am in the country and I do have a "problem" in that mice are a natural
part of life here. Given a chace they come in , especially in winter. The
only answer ( and I one I was given here actually) is to keep all outside
areas free of clutter and litter, hard pave or gravel rather than have
garden near the house and thus keep them away from the house.
Putting sacks out is tantamount to putting up B&B signs for the local
OK sorry. I am just fed up of being chided because I have no place to put
some stupid plastic sacks which are taking weeks to fill because basically I
am not a *waste generating* person anyway.
One black bag a week and couple of newspapers , which get burned. Very
little junk mail and thats it.
I dont think recycling is a suitable proposition for me.
Im just better dumping and taking stuff or taking it to the amenity tip.
I sympathise, mich, it sounds as though you live near me.
My black bag is stores in the foxproof shed so it can stink that out -
the pompous posters ignore the kitchen waste which the cat refused, or
the offcuts of gristle or chook bones, or the fat which will choke either
my arteries or the drains; which can only go in the black bag.
The recyclable, mainly lager cans, but the occasional milk plastic
bottle, stay outside the back door, looking ugly.
On the bright side, I only put out a black bag once a fortnight now, but
it's still all a bluddy bind
| "David Hearn" wrote
| > > >So, how do people cope?
| > > Simple. Don't bother. The vast majority of recycling schemes are
| > > bunk.
| > Local Authorities are required to significantly reduce the amount
| > put into landfills. If people refuse to recycle, even when systems
| > are in place, that's bad. Even if it costs the taxpayer more money,
| > its still necessary as they have to recycle more and landfill less.
| > Besides, if local authorities don't reduce landfill, they'll lose
| > funding from the Government, which means taxes go up even more... ;)
But if the LAs lose funding from the Govt, local taxes might rise but
central taxes should drop correspondingly, so the overall tax burden should
stay the same. (It won't of course.)
| So much for the discussion about the importance or not of the ecological
| issue but the reality is no one will recycle anything when it has to sit
| reeking around a kitchen for weeks on end now will they?
The answer is for businesses to cut the amount of excess product packaging
at source, and have all waste packaging returned to the retailer for
re-use/recycle wherever possible. But they won't do that unless the Govt
makes them, and the Govt prefers to put the burden on the individual
If the Govt mandated the use of deposit glass bottles for all drinks that
would reduce the plastic and aluminium that needs to be disposed of from
milk bottles and cola cans, and a similar scheme should encourage brewers to
reuse beer bottles rather than pubs sending them for cullet.
Where I am at present glass beer bottles have a deposit, but also
plastic cola/lemonde bottles as well, (e.g., the 2 litre sort) so
there is no need to change the packaging at all, merely! impose a
charge and set up the recovery infrastructure. Here the supermarkets
typically have a machine where you feed the bottles, plastic or glass,
through a hole where they are electronically inspected, and a reciept
issued that is honoured at the checkout till. These machines also
have a small conveyor that will take a beercrate and the bottles,
inspect them, and put the refund on the reciept. So crates, plastic
and glass deposit bottles can all be automatically accepted.
Somewhere in the back of the store these are kept for collection.
People here also separate the non deposit glass and paper and put them
in at collection points. We have biological collection - green bin -
and other - grey bin collection alternate weeks, and blue (paper) once
a month. However to have alternate week collection without the bins
would be rather nasty, the biological kitchen refuse plus grass
cuttings etc get a bit off in the summer.
We also have a special smart ID card to use the local waste site, I am
allowed 200Kg a week there. (you are automatically weighed in and
out) This has been brought in because people from other areas were
visiting the local site to avoid paying in their districts and could
use the old dump for free. Some other local councils in the district
have wheelie bins with identity chips in so they record how much you
are putting into the system and charge accordingly.
Complex isn't it, with a big infrastructure. And, if you were
wondering, this is Holland, only 120 miles away from the UK.
Not quite... all this stuff on recycling, landfill etc arises from a
battery of EU directives that have come into force over the last decade.
The penalty for non-compliance is, potentially, unlimited fines of the
member country, so the tax burden would rise and only the EU coffers
We have been told we have to clean them before putting them into the sacks,
so from the uninitiated why is this counter advantagous to their recycling
since thats the purpose?
I think rinsing is going to be a problem for my drains at some point with
all the gunge thats now going down the sink plughole, and I am responsible
for all the sh*t disposed of on my ground , it doesnt go into the mains
I rely on land drains and septic tank.
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