OT - To Stormin Mormon

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On 11/5/2013 8:57 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:

I guess it's possible. But, that's not the sense I got at that moment. It's been a lot of years, but I remember her being very believable.
I've also known of people to lose a contact lens outdoors, got asked to borrow my flash light one time for just that.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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2 cell phone incidents, one from each side - I found one, my daughter lost hers. Both were returned to the rightful owner.
The Phone I Found...
I was walking along a wooded trail in a park near my home and found a cell phone. A quick scan of the contacts showed an area code from a different state. I found a contact for "Big Sister", called that number and left a message that I had found the phone and gave them my cell phone number. A few minutes later my phone rang and it was the mom of the girl who owned the phone. (I guess they chose to have an adult call me instead of one of the daughters) It turned out that the out-of-state family was visiting friends in my town and had been walking the same trail earlier that morning. They said they were close by, so I told them I would wait. A few minutes later the Dad showed up. I handed him the phone, he handed me a bottle of wine and a handshake later we both went our separate ways.
The Phone My Daughter Lost...
My daughter goes to college in a different town. Last winter she called to tell me that she lost her iPhone and asked if I could track it for her. I logged into Find My iPhone (FMiP) and located the phone on the corner of a road near her dorm. It was a snowy, wintery day, so she needed a few minutes to get dressed and get down there. By the time she got to the corner I could see that the phone was "on the move". She tried to follow the directions I gave her, but it was moving too fast. We assume it was in a car. I used the FMiP app to lock the phone and put a message on the screen to call my cell number if the phone was found. The next day FMiP located the phone sitting still near a house a few miles from the school. The campus police said they couldn't help because it was off-campus, the local police said they couldn't just go knocking on doors demanding the cell phone back. Later that day the iPhone went off-line and we lost track of it.
Two months later, on the same day that my daughter went back to school after the holidays, I got a call from a number with the area code where my daughter goes to college. At first I thought her current phone must be dead and she was calling from a friend's phone to tell me she was back at school. However, when I answered, it was a girl who said her Mom had found the iPhone about a week ago in a snow bank in the parking lot where she worked. They let it dry out, charged it up and saw my number on the screen. I told her I would have my daughter call her, they met up (my daughter brought a male friend just to be safe) and my daughter got her iPhone back. It worked fine, even though it had been outside for at least a portion of the two month period since she lost it.
It must be good karma. My daughter's iPhone was lost before I found/returned the other phone and returned to her afterwards. My good deed was rewarded.
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On 11-06-2013, 10:55, DerbyDad03 wrote:

They can't (without a warrant), but you can. But if they're trying to steal it, they won't cooperate with you either, and it won't be there when you do get the warrant. But if they are nice folks (as these were), you get your phone.
Before iPhone existed, my son lost one that had a GPS tracking chip in it. I got on-line and the map showed it in a driveway a mile away. I know GPS is not always accurate, but I figured it likely it was in that house.
They all said they knew nothing about it, but finally one of the kidssaid, "Oh, wait--I gave [my son] a ride a couple of days ago."
Searched the car and found it. GPS was spot on this time.
--
Wes Groleau

Words of the Wild Wes
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While perhaps I can, I certainly wasn't going to drive 700 miles to help my daughter get her iPhone back. In addition, I was not going to suggest to my daughter that she and her friends go to the house and demand the phone.

It was hard to tell from the app if it was in the house, in a car parked next to the house or on the ground next to the house. The map location was slightly to the right of the actual house. There was a large open yard next to the house and it appeared that the phone might have been in that yard. It was stationary for about 12 hours next to the house, then it moved to a parking lot a few miles away where it was once again stationary for hours before it went off-line.

AFAIK the folks that returned the phone had nothing to do with the house where it sat for a while. The "nice folks" were simply the ones who found the phone and called the number I put on the screen - unless she was lying to me and had the phone for two months and then finally decided it was of no use to her since it was locked. I doubt that. I can't imagine a thief - or even a innocent "finder" - hanging on to the phone for 2 months and then deciding to call. A finder would call as as soon as they could (as in this case) and a thief would probably just toss the phone in a parking lot (as it appears to be in this case).

I've used the GPS feature of SWMBO's Droid to keep track of her when she's on long road trips. She drives very slow and even though she calls to check in every now and then, it takes her so much longer than most people that I get nervous. I "check in" via the GPS tracker every now and then just to make sure she's still on route and moving.
One time I "found" her on a small state road instead of the interstate. I waited until I saw the phone stop and then called her and asked her if she was lost. She was surprised that I knew but then humorously called me a stalker.
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On 11/4/2013 9:33 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

RTFM. One's reward comes from believing that Jesus is the son of God, that he was a real man, that he came to Earth, and that he died on the cross to take away our sins so that we might have eternal life. Those who accept this, and his teachings will reap the rewards. No amount of good deeds can get you into heaven. (This is one of the major different points between Mormonism and Christianity, where Mormons believe that their good deeds and temple rituals get them their own planet in the heavenly universe.) And no modified doctrines or "new" prophecies will create new rules and/or change the Word of God. Galatians 1:6-9, Rev. 22:18-19. It is interesting that almost the last word of the Bible is a warning against adding to the Bible or changing it. Many strong warnings are given against people who want to be false teachers, or just followers who are easily lead. James 3:1. The Bible is full of warnings of the coming churches, many passages aimed directly at the LDS faith. In Titus 1:5-9, the requirements for a deacon are spelled out. It describes a fully grown married man with children. In the LDS faith, boys are made deacons automatically at age 12.
But the Mormons say, " The bible is true as far as it is correctly interpreted." That statement converts to strike out anything that contradicts Mormonism. Well, if you strike chapter and verse that are directly copied from the Bible to Book of Mormon, you'd have a skeleton left. And if the Bible is not true, and the Book of Mormon is based on the bible, then it, too is not true. You can't have it both ways.
So far, no trace of the ancient Mormon civilization they created in the New World has been found. Not one inscription. Not one potshard. The Smithsonian has stated that on paper. And their numbers were described "as many as the grains of sand on the beach." This is a direct plagiarism from a Bible verse. Recent DNA studies of 3500 North and South American Indian tribes shows that only .05% of all the current Indian tribes in North and South America came from the Middle east, the area where the founders Laman and Lemuel came from. Most came from the areas of Siberia and Mongolia. The Mormons had been claiming all Indians as descendents of the Mormons, until the Indians took exception, and took them to task legally. They were also baptizing victims of the Holocaust, and the Jewish faith took that to task. Essentially, it amounted to changing the faith of a Jew to a Mormon by the baptism of a young proxy temple worker at a LDS temple behind locked doors. But, hey, until you're caught, it's okay, right?
Put it this way: A decent honest person would have returned the wallet just because it was the right thing to do. No rewards expected. Christian, Hindu, Mormon, Taoist, or Shintu. Right is right, and we don't get any points for doing what is right. Especially if someone finds out about it. Anonymous good deeds are the only pure ones.
Deborah Laake - Secret Ceremonies ........ a book of a Mormon woman. An interesting read, but sometimes it takes three months to get one at a local library, as Mormons check out the book for a year at a time, and pay the fine to keep it out of public circulation.
Steve ex-Mormon www.exmormon.org Hear it from people who BTDT
And whatever you believe, investigate it thoroughly.
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That's an excellent admonition. No offense intended but one of the things that people might want to check is how the bible came to be (if it pertains to you). The origin of the book of Mormon could stand some scrutiny too.
--

dadiOH
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On 11/5/2013 12:35 PM, dadiOH wrote:

With the expansion of new ET evidence, and the across-the-board similarities of the founding of most religions by "Sky People", even my beliefs are shaking.
But, basically, I think in all it comes back to a light/dark, good/evil mentality.
I just know that living among people who believe in something greater than man or even just greater than the sum total of mankind, is better than living in a world of people who don't. I know, having tried both.
Steve
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On 11/5/2013 10:39 PM, SteveB wrote:

Hey, us outer space must stick together on this backward planet. o_O
TDD
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On 11/5/2013 1:10 PM, SteveB wrote:

CY: Sing it, bro!
No amount of

CY: Nope, but good deeds sure can improve things once you get there. Unlike binary (are you a 100 or a 0?) Christians, Mormons believe that hard work and keeping the commandments has its reward.
(This is one of the major different

CY: Which was put there in about 1,000 AD by King James men. But, it didn't say that God has finished speaking.
Many strong

CY: Says you....
In Titus 1:5-9, the requirements for a deacon are spelled out.

CY: You don't know much about the Mormon faith, I see?

CY: I've heard that old bit about "no trace". It's a crock, plenty of trace. http://www.fairlds.org/authors/ash-michael/archaeological-evidence-and-the-book-of-mormon
Recent DNA studies of 3500 North and

CY: Be curious to see some evidence of this.
They were also baptizing victims of the

CY: You display your ignorance, again. The ordinances are optional to the deceased. They don't have to convert. Yes, the Jews did object, and the practice has been discontinued.

CY: hear it from people who lost their faith, and have become antagonists. Not any chance of objective truth, here.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
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THE ARTICLES OF FAITH.
In the spring of 1842, the Prophet Joseph Smith sent a letter to John Wentworth, who was editor of a newspaper called the Chicago Democrat. This letter contained an account of many of the events of early Church history. The document also contained thirteen statements outlining Latter-day Saint beliefs. These have come to be known as the Articles of Faith, which are given below.
The Articles of Faith are official doctrine of the Church and have been canonized as a part of latter-day scripture. They are clear statements of belief that help members understand the basic beliefs of the Church and explain these beliefs to others. They are not, however, a complete summary of Church doctrine. Through living prophets, the Church is guided by continuous revelation and inspiration.
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith.
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wrote:

why the American continent, and not at the temple in Jerusalem?
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On 11/6/2013 12:26 PM, RobertMacy wrote:

You'd think I would know that kind of thing. But, I'm not sure.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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If you read the Bible, it says the true test of prophecy is time. If a prophet prophecies, and it comes true, then they are a prophet. The LDS history is shot full of prophesies that are lies or failed to come true.
What about the one that said it was a requirement for a man to have multiple wives to enter Paradise?
Oh, wait a minute!
Incoming!
Let's change the law to get statehood.
Blacks in the church becoming unPC, holding them down from the priesthod?
Wait a minute!
Incoming!
A faith that changes with the winds of politics isn't a faith.
Steve
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On 11/6/2013 11:58 AM, SteveB wrote:

I'm so glad we have continuing revelation. Unlike the other churches which do not.
--
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Christopher A. Young
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On 11-05-2013, 13:10, SteveB wrote:

The Book of Mormon does include some quotes from the real Bible, but they are only a small percentage of the whole thing. I find it interesting that the book of Mormon contradicts some of Joseph Smith's later writings:
3 Nephi 24:6 — "For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Jacob 2:24 — "Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord."
Compare that to <http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132.39?lang=eng#38
Now, did God really give David something that was abominable before Him?
--
Wes Groleau

“There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.”
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Specifically, the King James bible. There are numerous bibles.

I find it interesting that those biblical quotes - regardless of their number - are in a book that was (supposedly) written 1000 years +- before the book from which they are quoted. (Actually, they aren't "quoted" - i.e., attributed - just copied.)
--

dadiOH
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On 11-06-2013, 07:52, dadiOH wrote:

Well, for the "benefit of the doubt," if both are inspired by God, then it's conceivable that he might repeat himself on an important subject.
And when I am translating something, I often consult literature to see how someone else said a similar thing.
But then again, Smith claimed that the magic eyeglasses showed him what to write.
I was impressed at how hard those magic glasses tried (but failed) to imitate King James era English grammar.
--
Wes Groleau

The man who reads nothing at all is better educated
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On 11-05-2013, 21:24, Wes Groleau wrote:

I forgot to include the comparison: "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, ..." (Joseph Smith, 7 Apr 1844) (<http://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon )
For background, read <http://www.lds.org/ensign/1982/02/i-have-a-question
--
Wes Groleau

“To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying
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On 11/5/2013 7:24 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:

Studies show that over 27,000 words from the Bible are in the Book of Mormon, many transcribed word for word, verse for verse.
Steve
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On 11/6/2013 12:00 PM, SteveB wrote:

Next, please study the duplication in the King James Version. That might be a cult, too.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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