OT: Letter of Reprimand

As long as we are on military subjects, I hope many saw "60 Minutes" last Sunday,s egment on a MOH winner. That alone is a 4-hankie production (Another soldier involved in the same fire fight was supposed to get it at the same ceremony, but the military ****ed up his paperwork.)
The hero told the story of how the soldiers he was trying to rescue kept calling for help, but whoever was in charge just kept blowing them off. Voice of one soldier radioing the perps: Ïf you don't send fire, I die."
All four soldiers died.
What did the perps get? A Letter of Reprimand!!!! Never mind that it came from high up and was strongly worded. The relatives of two of the sacrificed soldiers think the perps should have a Court Martial; they have spent thousands in the effort.
I do NOT understand why these perps, who were clearly, unbelievably, negligent -- basically responsible for the death of four soldiers -- merely get a slap on the wrist!!! (When, for example, others who did much less OR NOTHING AT ALL, do go before a Court Martial.)
CYA?
HB
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It's wrong to second guess people involved in a fire fight. More than once a commander has had to watch or listen to some of his troops being killed and been forced to decide that sending more troops would just result in more deaths. Shit happens on the battlefield. Bad shit. Solders shoot their fellow solders. Solders are left to die.
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Yep, monday morning quarterbacking is always the best solution.
Harry K
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They got a letter of reprimand and a Medal of Honor. Given how I feel about following orders, I'd consider that a double bonus. Game well played and something to be doubly proud of.
--
Dan Espen

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On Sep 21, 11:06 am, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

You are either very confused, or you never read my post carefully.
The SURVIVOR(s) got the MOH for repeatedly risking their lives to evacuate Afghan soldiers. They could not reach the 4 American soldiers, who were desperately, repeatedly calling for help -- and being blown off by men in a safe office -- one of whom was reportedly not even at his job.
The Letter of Reprimand was issued to these perps who let 4 soldiers die.
Now go and read it again.
**&^^_%$)(*&&^87==9 !!!!!!
HB
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Sorry, got it wrong when I first saw the news report. Now I just read the whole episode again.
In this life some people do and other give orders. Why we value the ones that give orders as much as we do is a mystery.

No need for that kind of talk around here!
--
Dan Espen

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On Sep 21, 11:06 am, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

You are either very confused, or you never read my post carefully.
The SURVIVOR(s) got the MOH for repeatedly risking their lives to evacuate Afghan soldiers. They could not reach the 4 American soldiers, who were desperately, repeatedly calling for help -- and being blown off by men in a safe office -- one of whom was reportedly not even at his job.
The Letter of Reprimand was issued to these perps who let 4 soldiers die.
Now go and read it again.
**&^^_%$)(*&&^87==9 !!!!!!
HB
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If you had SEEN the damn segment; listened to the (very restrained) MOH winner; seen the accompanying footage, and READ the Letter of Reprimand, you would hang your head in shame for your comment!. The very senior General Officers who wrote the Reprimand WERE intimately familiar with the way it developed, which you are NOT!!!!
HB
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<stuff snipped>
<<If you had SEEN the damn segment; listened to the (very restrained) MOH winner; seen the accompanying footage, and READ the Letter of Reprimand, you would hang your head in shame for your comment!. The very senior General Officers who wrote the Reprimand WERE intimately familiar with the way it developed, which you are NOT!!!!
HB>>
Hey, HB, how come your messages don't mark quoted passages properly? You're among a handful of poster here that require manual insertion of << angle brackets >> to indicate quoted material.
That said, the insane actions of the higher ups come from the equally insane "kid gloves" war we are fighting. How the most powerful country on earth gets itself into these Gulliver's Travels situations where we are tied down by little people is a mystery to me. Spending ten years trying to bring bribe-happy goat herders into the "democratic" world doesn't, IMHO, make us look like a world superpower. It makes us look like chimps playing with a locked suitcase. We try and we try, but we never reach the goal.
-- Bobby G. *INGALLS, GEORGE ALAN Rank and organization: Specialist Fourth Class, U.S. Army, Company A, 2d Battalion, 5th Cavalry, 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile). Place and date: Near Duc Pho, Republic of Vietnam, 16 April 1967. Entered service at: Los Angeles, Calif. Born: 9 March 1946, Hanford, Calif. A grenade landed directly between Sp4c. Ingalls and a nearby comrade. Although he could have jumped to a safe position, Sp4c. Ingalls, in a spontaneous act of great courage, threw himself on the grenade and absorbed its full blast. The explosion mortally wounded Sp4c. Ingalls, but his heroic action saved the lives of the remaining members of his squad.
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news:8d641816-fcbc-47bf-b0c1-

-- OK, lessee if dat woiks.
HB
Nope. Keep on trying. If I get a moment I'll search Google to see whatsup. You can't be the only one with this problem. IIRC, there are a couple of other posters here whose carets are cursed.
OK, I've been searching and searching, but so far, no joy.
Google politely suggested that perhaps instead of this search:
google groups does not quote correctly using carets
that I really wanted to search for:
google groups does not quote correctly using carrots
That's artificial intelligence for you. I remember some of the first translation programs would take a phrase: "Out of sight, out of mind" to "Absent and insane."
http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/poor-quoting-t3517259.html
acknowledges the problem and at least reminded me that I was using the wrong terms. <> are called angle brackets or greater than/less than symbols. ^ is a caret. I'll try again.
" It seems that any microsoft news reader, Outlook Express, Windows Mail Client, does not quote properly when replying to posts made using google groups. Some people seem to quote my (and others) posts fine, and when I check their headers, they're invariably using either google groups themselves or Mozilla Thunderbird, or some other news reader, anything but a Microsoft product."
I learned a new phrase at least:
Argument from authority (also known as appeal to authority or argumentum ad verecundiam)
This is about the best I could do for you:
<<Quoting the previous message in a reply If you're replying to a post in a Usenet newsgroup, both the "Reply" link at the bottom of the post and the one under "more options" at the top of the post will quote the full text of the previous message in the composition window.
If you're replying to a post in a Google Group, you can select either the "Reply" link at the bottom of the post or the "Reply" link under "show options" at the top of the post. The full text of the previous message is included in the composition box and marked with angle brackets (>) at the start of each line. You can place your comments between lines of the quote or simply add your thoughts at the bottom.>>
http://groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answerF543
-- Bobby G. *KAWAMURA, TERRY TERUO Rank and organization: Corporal, U.S. Army, 173d Engineer Company, 173d Airborne Brigade, Republic of Vietnam. Place and date: Camp Radcliff, Republic of Vietnam, 20 March 1969. Entered service at: Oahu, Hawaii. Born. 10 December 1949, Wahiawa, Oahu, Hawaii. Cpl. Kawamura observed that another explosive charge had been thrown through the hole in the roof to the floor. He immediately realized that 2 stunned fellow soldiers were in great peril and shouted a warning. Although in a position to escape, Cpl. Kawamura unhesitatingly wheeled around and threw himself on the charge.
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While I agree that the LOR is ridiculous, the fact remains that we who live in democratic societies are spoiled by the idea that we are entitled to make such judgements. We have absolutely no idea of the majority of the back story, just as we have no idea of all of the facts for any of those wonderful murder cases that make network news. I'm sure that if Trial by Public was the accepted norm, we would convict far more innocent but totally unsympathetic defendants than we do now
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A letter of reprimand in the military is much more than a slap on the wrist, it is a career killer.
The lessons of Vietnam are LONG forgotten. -----
- gpsman
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Let's see -- is that somehow worse than being really killed because of their negligence?

You got that right! Didn't someone say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over -- and expecting different results?

HB
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No, it's just much worse than a slap on the wrist. -----
- gpsman
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Sorry, but I have to make a correction. There is no such thing as a MOH "winner". It is not a prize, there was no contest. Recipients are awarded the medal for bravery, many posthumously.
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I stand corrected.
HB
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