How to quiet a home generator?

Page 2 of 3  
Jamie writes:

A car consumes more like 1 gallon/hour idling.

Only in Hollywood. It's not a "big nod" like in the movies.
CO emissions from cars are typically near zero. The CO2 will displace air and suffocate you. But neither is particularly fast, and survival instincts are hard to countermand.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

3 people died after the Charley storm in exactly this way, two separate incidents. The gennys were in the garage
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Enclosures can be built but need to be designed right and need more than a few inches of airspace. The heat from the motor and exuast will ignite wood. I use an 8x8 shed with some insulation at the roof and leave the doors open and run a fan inside. Contacting a pro or the mnfg is best. Mufflers will work but will reduce power.
Sure Honda is the best but at 2.5-3x the price. But you do get what you pay for, in voltage stability, reliability and quietness.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I ran my 7500w gen ten ft outside my house, my Co alarm tripped as the wind was blowing fumes back in. Running it in an attached space is high risk even with doors open. Best is a sepatate shed- garage with 20 -30+ ft proper cable. Generators are inneficent engines and can at full load consume the same 15 hp it takes to power a small car at 55mph. Also most homeowner gens run at a less efficient 3600 rpm rather than a cars, apx 1800 at 55 mph.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
My car consumes only about 2 gallons/hour driving 60 miles per hour (at roughly 30 miles per gallon), with the engine at about 2800 RPM under load. I would certainly expect it would do a lot better than 1 gallon per hour at 600 RPM with no load. Maybe you're driving a Ford Expedition.
CO doesn't exactly suffocate you. You make it sound like you'd need there to be more CO than oxygen in order for it to kill you. According to this, you body will always use CO before oxygen when both are inhaled.
And yes - it can kill you very quickly.
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/communications/CO/co_car.html

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Comparing to a car is bogus anyway, unless you are talking about an early 60s car. Emission controls make most of the CO go away (Basically the A.I.R. pump) in a car but small engines like you see in generatpors have no emission controls. They are pretty dirty across the board. I have heard it said that lawn mowers, weed whackers ansd leaf blowers may contribute more to smog than cars these days. Outboards are already under scrutiny.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload


Very small amounts of CO can kill you quickly.
"Near zero" CO emissions from cars can kill you if you're not ventilating well enough. Starting a car in a closed garage and sitting in the car to read a book is about the easiest and gentlest ways to die there is.
There are no "survival instincts" triggered by CO. CO2 triggers a physiological reaction (you _know_ you're not getting enough to breathe, because that's part of the active feedback of how your breathing system works).
CO does not. It has no smell. You have no way of knowing it's happening _unless_ it's accompanied by something else (like smoke). If you're _expecting_ the smoke ("well, gosh darn it, there is a generator running in the bathroom!"), well...
Your blood stream simply starts carrying less and less oxygen and you fall asleep (if you aren't already). Then die.
More people died in the great ice storm from CO than any other cause.
Many of those were inadequately ventilated generators.
CO kills by preferentially binding to the haemoglobin in your red blood cells _instead_ of O2, but your cells aren't interested in using CO.
It binds tightly enough that you do not get rid of it very fast.
Which is why a short exposure to CO can lead to a long recovery on pure O2.
[In severe cases, they can resort to pure O2 in hyberbaric chambers. Above about 30PSI, you don't _need_ haemoglobin in your blood stream to carry enough O2 to stay alive long enough for the CO to eventually go away.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Chris Lewis writes:

Bunk. The pCO2 respiratory stimulation will kick in long before integrated pCO is enough to affect anything. Car exhaust is nearly pure CO2 and steam, plus very tiny amounts of things like CO. As a suicide method, it's absolutely stupid, because the mostly likely outcome is a brain-damaged but still-alive subject.
The dose makes the poison. Your swell ideas about what happens given a lethal dose of CO doesn't mean inhaling car exhaust will administer a lethal dose. Citing unusual cases where it has happened is to commit the fallacy of selection.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload



[Okay, I won't quote the only suicide that I'm personally aware of.]
Bunk still.
You're missing a critical difference between how CO2 and CO affects the body.
CO2 _primarily_ works by simple displacement of O2, and at high enough levels suppression of breathing (at mid levels it encourages breathing, at very high levels it suppresses it).
If you remove someone from a CO2 situation short of brain damage occuring, they recover pretty instantly.
In other words, CO2 in == CO2 out (more or less). The body is designed to expell CO2. In contrast, CO inhibits O2 transfer no matter how much O2 is in your lungs. Not only that, it's expelled very slowly. It "bioaccumulates" at any exposure level above a very low threshold. Once you've been CO-poisoned, you have to have breathing support (ie: pure O2 or hyperbaric) long enough for your body to have a chance to get rid of the CO.
Thus, in anything short of a perfectly sealed environment, it's VERY common for the CO2 levels to never reach hazardous levels and being able to survive it indefinately, but the CO level in the blood starts to rise.
Thus, operating a gas generator for a long period of time (hours) when there's the slightest exhaust leak to living areas is _extremely_ hazardous. Because the CO2 concentration (and smell) may never get strong enough to do something about. But the CO level in your blood is going up and up and ... even tho you're getting plenty of O2, your blood doesn't want it. You die without even noticing, because you're breathing acceptable levels of CO2.
Take careful note of the MSDS's and descriptions of CO2 and CO poisoning.
Notice how "shortness of breath" is _not_ a symptom of CO poisoning? That's why it's so dangerous.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Chris Lewis writes:

No, you're missing the whole point, that pCO vs pCO2 in most auto exhaust is so low, that the CO2 has to get to you before the CO will. CO poisoning from auto exhaust is very difficult any more.

Right, you're going to suffer from lethal CO2 anoxia or respiratory depression before CO conentrates enough to poison you. For someone attempting suicide, this is likely to result in a respiratory panic that overrule the cognitive will.

Hardly.
An MSDS is a hysterical, dumbed-down, crisis-management flash card, neither a balanced nor a complete source of information.
http://www.loganact.com/tips/royko.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Chris Lewis writes:

A possible outcome, but not as you say, rather because the pCO vs pCO2 concentration is enormously high for a 1-cyl genset, compared to automobile exhaust, which is what I was addressing.

Silly to base toxicology on MSDSs.
http://www.loganact.com/tips/royko.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sillier still to base it on the words of someone who thinks gasoline is safe to drink, and says borax will kill you but automobile exhaust won't.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload


Yeah, but the toxicity of a given amount of CO is much higher than CO2, and CO _accumulates_ in the body, whereas CO2 does not. You can live quite handily in 5% CO2 as long as you want. Whereas, 200ppm of CO (.02% if I have the zeros right) will _eventually_ kill you.
As for automotive exhaust issues, the statistics seem to refute your position.
check out http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic817.htm for example.
Do some google searching.


If that were the only thing you could base it on, yeah, but it's not as if the facts in the MSDS for CO2 or CO are in doubt.
There's not exactly a dearth of confirmation in more scientific circles.

So one silly MSDS kills the whole thing eh?
Watch out for DHMO! http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

integrated
it's
but
So in other words, a few years ago when I was working on a car, in a closed shop, exhaust hose attached, but unaware of a hole in the exhaust, I should have known sooner I was poisoning myself?? I realized that I was feeling faint and headed out the door. I don't remembering even getting outside, don't remember opening the heavy shop door. All I remember is a buddy that happened to stop by, finding me sitting, passed out in a snow bank along side the shop. If I had not caught myself feeling faint, or the shop door was farther away, I would not be here today. I noticed nothing untill I felt dizzy. Greg
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
KINCH the dumb fuck grinch
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Greg O writes:

Who knows, but sounds consistent with slow CO2 anoxia, CO poisoning.
Did you have any CO symptoms? How fast did you recover, and did you get treatment for CO poisoning (blood levels at an ER)?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Richard J Kinch writes:

Sorry, that should have read, "not CO".
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Never went into the doc, but felt like puking my guts out, never did. I felt real faint for about an hour. I sat outside in the winter air for an hour then went home. I was feeling better, but still pretty sick. Went to bed about two hours after the ordeal, it was around midnight. Still felt like hell the next day, but better than the night before! Just a wiff of auto exhuast still makes me sick to this day. My point to the post is I never felt like I had trouble breathing at any point. I did not notice a thing untill maybe 10 seconds before I dropped. No problems breathing, just all of a sudden felt like somebody punched me! Greg
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload


No shortness of breath. Not slow CO2 anoxia.

Much more consistent with CO.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jamie writes:

You didn't follow what I said, CO vs CO2.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.