Excuse me. You made the claim that in your experience refrigerators
run constantly when making ice. So, which is it? Your OPINION based
on physics calcs you haven't done, or your actual observation. I'll
say it again. In my experience, with my own refrigerator, it DOES
NOT COME EVEN CLOSE TO RUNNING ALL THE TIME WHILE MAKING ICE.
Hmmm, first we have the physics defense, now you say you haven't even
made any actual calculations. So, it's pure speculation.
That the DOE tests don't include ice makers does not equate to ice
makers result in the refrigerator running all the time. Or that
sublimation of maybe 1/3 of a container of ice during a month is a big
deal energy wise. All we have is your pure speculation. You have
any references to back any of this up?
Deduction is not speculation. The whole point of engineering analysis is
to predict things you haven't tried by use of mathematical laws instead of
trial and error. I assert this cup of coffee will run downhill if I spill
it. That's speculation?
Early in this thread I cited the US CFR section that specifies the DOE
testing procedure (no doors, no contents, no icemaking). Physics and
thermodynamics are textbook subjects.
It's pure speculation when you claim that ice sublimation is a large
or dominant factor in how much energy a refrigerator uses. You have
NOTHING that shows how much energy this amounts to. It's also pure
speculation that making ice in the quantities a typical home would use
is a big factor in how much energy a refrigerator uses, because again
you have NOTHING to base this on.
I can tell you one thing you're dead wrong on. You claimed that a
refrigerator that is making ice runs nearly constantly. I told you
that in my experience, that is simply not true. To support that, I
did a little test yesterday. I emptied out 1/3 of my ice container
and kept an eye on the refrigerator intermittently for the next couple
of hours. It did not run anywhere near to constantly. It appeared
to run about the same as it does any other time, which is a small
fraction of the time. I encourage anyone with doubts to try it.
That specifies the testing procedures used and was certainly good
information for everyone. However, it does nothing to support your
claim that ice sublimation is such a big factor or that a refrigerator
runs constantly when making ice. For all you know, the EPA could
have figured out that making ice in an average use situation makes
only a 5% or 10%% difference in the amount of energy used and chose
for simplicity to just ignore it.
And while physics and thermodynamics are textbook subjects, without
even any rudimentary calculations, let alone real world tests, citing
them doesn't do anything to support your case.
Now, what should I believe? My own eyes and ears seeing that my
refrigerator runs only a small fraction of the time making ice or your
obviously biased opinions, without supporting evidence?
On Apr 21, 8:04 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I will simplfy it, I will make it easy, I get EPA yellow tag ratings,
I tested mine, it works. I pay less than $5 a month to run my 19.5 cu.
ft frige. Kinch pays 30 a month to run whatever, he is a sucker. Let
him be a sucker or a moron, whatever. its his money, his waste, not
mine or yours.
Here's an Energy Star example:
They claim 606 kWh per year (8760 hours). So that's 606/8760 69 watts average consumption. Nowhere does GE seem to specify what
the running power is, but based on my experience I would expect it
to be 300 or 500 watts. So the duty cycle is claimed to be 69/300
or about 23 percent, actually less because we haven't counted the
high-wattage defrost periods. We have to also guess at 1000 BTU/hr
for the refrigeration unit based on its wattage. So this appliance
is pumping maybe 6000 BTUs per day. Now you tell me how much ice
you can make in one of these things running flat out, and we'll see
how much the duty cycle has to increase to compensate at about 300
BTUs per pound of ice. Just to make a pound of ice per hour will
more than double that duty cycle.
Wrong its near 80- 90 , ninety watts, mr Kincho, the problem is you
have ZERO present experiance , but you think you do, which is BS, you
never tested anything new, you test only posibly defective junk your
unit, you have no independant view, you have only a biased view. your
opinion is truely worthless. and based HOW, on what equipment , and
what new units did you test, YOU TESTED NO NEW UNITS, YOU ONLY TESTED
YOUR OLD JUNK. Your opinion is therefore BULL SHIT
You consumption is not the issue, it's the rate at which the unit produces
when it's running flat out. The issue was what happens to the duty cycle
when the thing is making ice. My claim is that making ice is a bigger BTU
load than perfect "idling" (no doors, no contents, no icemaking).
I think part of the problem is that my side-by-side refrigerator is a
recent "efficient" type and not that old, but it is a big 25 cu ft unit
with a rather large icemaker in it. The freezer side is big but the
icemaker and bin take up about 1/4 of it. At the time when I was last
buying a refrigerator, it was clear that the big ones had the same heat
pumps in them as the smaller ones, they just ran them on a higher duty
cycle. Which makes sense.
My kitchen fridge freezer compartment is 0.5 F at the moment. It contains
about 30 pounds of frozen food. Unplugged and "idling," it could easily
make a pound of ice with a 10 F temp increase (ice has half the specific
heat of water.)
Richard I have a big side by side, maybe 1982, my accurate KAW meter
put its use at 14$ a month, my tenants with new 19.5 cu ft friges pay
about 20 a month, some wifes run their tvs all day, use microwaves,
vcrs, etc. Its a shame you pay 30 a month for a frige, I feel sorry
for you, I just cant see your frige is running right or perhaps your
measuring of power is off. My neighbors pay around 100 a month at
Chicago rates of about 13.65 kwh and I pay under 40, for me its CFLs.
Try reading a review of a KAW meter, I think you will be suprised,
get one and test a frige at a store, im sure the owner will like the
idea. My 19.5 Kenmore I bought years ago at a different location came
in at maybe .50c a month more than the Yellow Tag indicated. So it can
be acheived. And 60 minutes -20/20 has had nothing on scam tests. The
frige tests were done at up to 90f, with doors open on variable
defrost models. But fact is , mine nearly matches Yellow Tag .
Hundreds of friges are tested. Mine is not an Ice maker, but I make
ice. to do as you say would add hundreds if not thousands of hours
unessecarily hooking up Ice Makers and testing Ice, but the way they
did it works, and so far you cant PROOVE it didnt work, since mine
matces Yellow tags very close. Friend I have to say you are behind
the times, and the time, oil is $117 a barrel, wake up my friend, your
30$ a month frige is suspect.
More than that. Maybe another 50 to chill it first. Plus wattage for a fan
to blow air on it. And the defroster to take care of evaporation from
blowing that air on it. Plus a reevaporator fan. And maybe the air
conditioning. I would estimate more like 300 effectively.
Yeah, and you'd have to keep removing ice from the bin to keep the
icemaker running to get even that output. Otherwise it will fill the
bin and stop.
Here, we're unlikely to use 3 pounds of ice per *month*, except for a
few months in the summer.
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