31 Things You'll Never Hear a Texan Say...

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On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 00:56:57 -0500, "Robert Green"

Never argued about savings/earnings definitions. Except to say earnings = (income - expense). Never got my panties in a wad because BobR said he made $35. Accept the above formula or not. Doesn't matter regarding net worth.
But at least somebody finally admitted that expense decreases net worth. Like pulling teeth here. Now do as I said and cancel your lawn service expense, as BobR did. If all else stays equal, and you have an income stream, as most everybody has, what happens to your net worth in 6 months? You don't have to reply. Everybody already knows the answer. Except for one other person now. You'll find no flaw in plus and minus.
BTW, I read your entire post, giving it respect, and responded to many points you made, But except for the above it was all irrelevant to what BobR and I said about coming out ahead by doing some work instead of paying somebody else. So I just deleted it. Even my Navy story about what we called slush funds. The important part is above, your admission that expense decreases net worth. Glad at least one of you is honest enough to admit that. Now do the exercise I gave with your lawn mowing costs to find the increase.
Given your obvious spirit, I don't expect you to be humbled by your admission that you've seen the light. You'll shake it off. But to aid you in that direction I'll note here my correcting response to your point about others only agreeing with you two. Nobody has agreed with you two. Nobody much gives a shit about this. Until your admission above, everybody but two people knew that cutting expense will increase net worth, all else equal. One was you, and now there's only one who thinks otherwise. So it's me, you, BobR and everybody else against the holdout. It's your task now to convince him. I'm a bit fatigued from taking you down. Beware of his razzle-dazzle footwork. Beware of him tossing lawn mowing indigents in your path. Just be patient until he is flat-footed, then throw a left uppercut plus, followed by a right cross minus. He'll crumple to the mat. Just as you did when you came off your toes above. Unless he does this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXY9TuuwyL8&feature=fvst

--Vic
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On 12/10/2011 5:37 PM, Vic Smith wrote:

Could you also figure in the benefits of mowing the lawn yourself like getting exercise, fresh air and sun for vitamin D? The free workout so you don't have to go to a gym or pay a personal trainer? Perhaps the act of mowing your lawn could reveal any medical problem brought on by exertion saving your life? Involving family members by getting children outdoors away from TV and video games, teaching them about safety around power equipment and the bonding experience of working together. How can you place a value on these things? ^_^
TDD
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On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:56:19 -0600, The Daring Dufas

Yep. All of that. I enjoy doing the lawn work for the reasons you gave. Can't say my kids ever considered it party time when I made them do it, but they never complained. As you say, some things can't be priced. But I know the price to hire out my lawn mowing. And I knew the price of a gym membership in the past.
--Vic
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wrote:

Earned: transitive verb 1a : to receive as return for effort and especially for work done or services rendered
Absolutely, since everything you mentioned could be considered as a return for the effort and work done. There is nothing in the above definition that specified the return must be in the form of $ dollars. The key point is that earned means something gained in return for work.
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"I think I done bought too many guns!"
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Christopher A. Young
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No, didn't neglect it but the mower, edger, and blower were all paid for in the first three months and that was 4 years back and they are still in good shape for another 3-4 years.
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news:7e3d925e-51cb-4fb9-8b6d-
<stuff snipped>

<When you consider that the grass is mowed and trimmed about 30+ times per year that $35 becomes $1050 of real pocket money.>
Why not mow it twice a week and DOUBLE your pocket money? (-:
-- Bobby G.
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Another clueless one.
Harry K
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That's good...you're half way there. You realize that your net worth is decreased when you spend money on services.
Now you just have to figure out that saving money isn't earning money because it does not increase your net worth - unless of course you invest it wisely, but that's a discussion for another thread.
Let me try using your financial logic...
The wife and I just walked the dogs instead of paying someone to do it for us. I guess I just earned about $15.
Earlier, we cooked dinner instead of paying a chef. I don't know...let's call it $75.
I drove myself to and from work instead of paying a cabby, that's got to be at least $100.
Before I went to work, I ironed my own shirt, which I also laundered over the weekend instead of paying someone to do it for me. Minimal earnings, maybe $6.
Note that these are all real services that people pay for. In fact, they are all things that I have actually paid someone to do for me in the past. By your logic, I should now be able to claim that I "earned" $196, in one day, just by doing some every day tasks on my own instead of paying someone to do them for me. If I do just those things everyday, that's over $70K in "earnings" in a year.
At some point the IRS is going to come looking for me.
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You're kidding right?
How is it that you can see the logic of paying someone else to do your chores and the impact it has on your net worth, yet you don't understand how not spending money is not the same as earning it?
As you clearly stated, if I had to earn money to pay someone I would have to pay taxes on those earnings, right?
Yet when I "earn" (your word) that same money by doing it myself there is no tax implications. How is the world of checks and balances does that make sense to you? Where did the money I "earned" by doing it myself come from and where - physically - is it?
Please don't tell me it's in my pocket. If I had $35 in my pocket (or bank) before I cleaned the yard, I'll still have $35 in my pocket (or bank) when I'm done. An even stronger argument is the zero dollar starting point: If I had $0 in my pocket (or bank) before I cleaned the yard, I'll still have $0 in my pocket (or bank) when I'm done. Where is this $35 that I supposedly "earned" by doing it myself?
Unless you can physically show me the $35 (or $70K) I "earned" by doing things myself, it just doesn't exist. Don't show me the same $35 (or $70K) that I started with, that's already been accounted for. Show me the money I *earned*, above and beyond what I already had.
Let's try it this way.
earn 1 (rn)
1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work: earned money by mowing lawns. 2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a reputation as a hard worker. 3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest on deposited funds.
Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started with by doing it myself.
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Thanks for defense, Mr. G.
I chose to ignore BobR's insults and language mainly because it adds nothing to the discussion, other than perhaps showing his stubborn refusal to admit that he is wrong. Had I taken the discussion in that direction there would have been even less of chance that he would have eventually realized how flawed his economics are, so I'll continue to ignore his tone.
In any case, I'm done with this. I'll let him have the last word, which he undoubtedly will, and I'll just continue saving (not earning, not making - just saving) money by not paying others to do my chores.
Thanks again.
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On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 14:58:16 -0500, "Robert Green"

You're confusing income and earnings. Earnings = (income - expense) And it has nothing to do "savings" unless increased earnings go there. BobR had an established lawn work expense. By using his own labor he cut out much of that expense. And so increased his earnings. You and Derby just can't understand that because....don't know why. It's as clear as the nose on your face. The "business plan" suggestion is likewise a red herring. There is a limit to expense cutting, and available time/work. Might as well say to a plumber making $1000 a week working 8 hour days, "Gee, why don't you work 32 hour days and bring home $4000.
Technically, even foregoing cable TV/internet expenses shows up as earnings. Replacing somebody else's labor with yours to cut an expense should draw no argument about earnings. It's really kind of crazy that anyone should take issue with that. Might show how people value labor. Might be they don't look at personal finances in a business like manner. I know when I spend some hours cutting out an $1000 auto repair expense by doing the labor myself I earned every penny of the difference in cost. Adds to my net worth also. Where did the earnings come from? Right out of a auto mechanic's pocket. No need for the Abbott/Costello money-handling routine.
--Vic
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re: "Adds to my net worth also. Where did the earnings come from? Right out of a auto mechanic's pocket. "
I know I should stay away like I said I would, but I've got to give it one last try.
Vic,
Please give me the name of the auto mechanic who didn't fix your car.
I want to ask him if he noticed that the pocket money he was carrying (i.e. his net worth) was decreased by $1000 after you fixed your own car. I mean, the money came "right out of his pocket" didn't it? He must be $1000 poorer now than he was before you fixed your car, right?
Wait...maybe you didn't have a specific auto mechanic that you would have used. So how does it work then? Did 1000 mechanics have their pocket cash decreased by $1 each? or 500 by $2? or 2000 by 50 cents? or is there just 1 random auto mechanic out there someplace who is $1000 poorer? Gosh, I hope not. Doesn't seem fair, does it? I mean, why *him*?
Just whose pocket(s) are lighter by $1000 now that your car is fixed?
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On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 15:28:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

His name would be Wayne or Jennings Chevrolet. Or maybe Joe Blow.

Essentially, yes. When costs are known, it's a zero sum game. What money doesn't accrue to him/them accrues to me. I get a dealer price of $1200 to change my intake manifold gasket. However many hours labor at $100 per. It has to be done, just like BobR's lawn has to be done. I hire myself to do it, take maybe twice as long, and pocket what I would have paid the dealer minus my costs. That income is absolutely missing from his pocket, whether he can attach that to me or not. He lost the competition for my dollars. I can calculate my hourly pay or not. Bottom line is he lost income, I lost expense. Earnings = (income - expense) What's so hard to understand about that?

Geez, it's as if you never heard somebody in business say "Things are slow, ain't making no money." Anybody who has ever worked in a trade understands this. They frown on DIYers for more than one reason. As an aside, just about everybody in my neighborhood uses a landscaping service. I do that myself. The service costs about $50 a week, or maybe $1000 per season. I know that. Everybody else knows that. When I see the lady across the street mowing her lawn I don't think it's because she can't afford the service. It's because she understands that cutting expenses increases earnings.
--Vic
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My oldest son sure looks good in that dance recital pink dress I bought for my daughter.
--

Christopher A. Young
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Unless their sole purpose was to instigate a useless argument which is clearly the case.
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BobR wrote:

Ben Franklin said the same thing about a penny... but we've had some inflation since his time.
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So you jusst ignore the fact that if he paid to have it done he would be $35 poorer. Your nit-picking argument is just that and a poor one it is.
Harry K
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Not to mention the simple fact that I never said I earned $70 an hour but that I was making $70 an hour for my efforts. That doesn't mean that I have to be paid for it only that it is a measure of the value of the effort.
making. The means of gaining success or realizing potential:
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