Architrave and Door Linings

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Firstly, is 'architrave' the correct term for the ornate part that goes around the door frame?
Secondly, having put up a stud wall, and then fitted the door, I notice that:
a) the door lining extends past the plasterboard, and b) the amount which it extends by varies from about 2mm at the bottom to 7mm at the top.
The door is hung well, and operates perfectly - so the lining is probably true, but the stud wall verticals may have been a little out.
Anyway - when I look at the existing doors in the house, the 'architraving' always looks so perfect. So my question is, how do I add them to my door, getting around the graduated protusion of my door lining? Is it a case of fit it , with padding as appropriate, and then fill the gap? Or is there another, easier way that I've yet to discover?
Cheers
JW
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On Jan 23, 12:08 pm, "John Whitworth"

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wrote:

Thanks.
I'm hoping to avoid plastering this wall, instead, just filling screw holes. My plasterboard joins are directly above the door lining verticals - so my total join length is about 170mm each side. Hopefully I can hide that with the powder filler I've used! Fingers crossed!

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John Whitworth wrote:

Yes!
Which is out of plumb - door lining or stud wall?

Does the door open or close automatically (without any door closures or springs fiitted [i.e by gravity])? If it does, then the lining is out of plumb and it may be a better option to remove it a refit it properly.

Rebate the architrave to fit over the 'high' spots on the lining and fill in the low spots - this is a common problem, especially if linings are fitted to un-rendered concrete blockwork - as in some public buildings and schools.
If the high spots really are excessive, then use the rebate or smoothing plane to bring the down to a reasonable level!
All interesting stuff, and I bet that you won't make the same error again - I didn't when it happened to me as an apprentice and I was made to demolish and rebuild the stud wall plumb (using a plumb-rule the second time as opposed to an out of true spirit level.
Cash
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Cool - ta.

The stud wall I think. I wish I'd just built it with screws now - but I started with 100mm nails, and things must have moved as I knocked seven bells out of it! :-)

No - I couldn't be happier with the operation of the door to be honest.

OK - thanks - I'll give that a go.

There's lots of things I won't do again! It's all certainly been a learning experience! :-D

Cheers
JW
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The door lining SHOULD project beyond the face of the plasterboard. The idea is that you fix the door linings so they are dead vertical and square and with an approx 3mm projection. You then tape all the plasterboard joins and skim over the whole wall with finishing plaster using the face of the door casing as the finished surface reference. Your architraves can then be either pinned on or glued on to a flat surface with no messing about with 'rebating' The 2mm - 7mm run out will then be simply filled with plaster and you should end up with a plaster wall with a virtual mirror finish if done like a pro. If you don't plaster the wall you won't be doing a proper job and will encounter problems as you have obviously realised. The most tricky part of the architraves I find is cutting the mitres so that there there is no gap when the architraves are fitted. Last time I did it I assembled the 3 architraves on the floor and clamped the mitres tight while pinning, I then carefully lifted the completed architraves in place and used a PVA type No Nails to fix them gently to avoid disturbing the mitres. You could also glue the mitres I guess. AJ
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Decorator's caulk is your friend ;-)
Cheers Richard
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not if you want to paint them, maybe you are a bit of a bodger!
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geraldthehamster wrote:

Only if you are a paid-up member of the bodge-it and scarper brigade!
Cash
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wrote:

Rubbish. Unless you can get your mitres fitting exactly and imperceptibly 100 per cent of the time, caulk is ideal for filling the tiniest crack and making a good job of it. That's what it's for.
Cheers Richard
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geraldthehamster wrote:

I can and do [1] - a 5 year apprenticeship and 40 years of practice cutting the damned things has helped mind! :-)
[1] But I will admit that the odd compound mitre or two on 7" torus skirting (and other types of mouldings) has caught me out on the odd occasion over the years - but that's what keeps the old painters on their toes! ;-)
All the best
Cash
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To Cash
We seem to be across purposes here which is confusing things. First the option of a plastered wall finish or decorated plasterboard is personal choice, JW didn't say in his question which he was intending to do. My personal preference is for plastered walls so my suggestions are worded accordingly.
Re projecting door linings; ask a plasterer and they will tell you that they need an edge to skim to, if the lining finishes flush with the face of the wallboard the plaster skim would go over the edge of the linings, as the architrave needs to be fixed directly to the edge face of the linings, with a 3-4mm setback, you don't want plaster there. You say that making up uneven surfaces with plaster is a bodge but of course this is one of the main functions of plaster apart from giving a good surface finish which can be directly decorated.
Re uneven linings: What you are suggesting with rebating the architrave doesn't sound right at all. JW doesn't say the linings are wavy he says that the protrusion is 2mm at the bottom and 7mm at the top. I don't see how 'rebating' the architraves can possibly work as you would be cutting away the thinnest part of the moulding. This is the response of a pro- "the linings are always in before we dot and dab. make sure you go just behind the lining. thickness of skim. then skim up to it. job done." I was also shown how to do that by a plasterer with 30+ years in the trade.
Cutting mitres; yes fine if you have a mitre saw but not everybody does. If you are cutting mitres by hand it's not that easy to get the angles spot on and perfectly square unless you have been doing it professionally for years. Small gaps can be caulked no problem, but if you want to leave the architraves as natural timber the gaps are unsightly. Re assembling on the floor after cutting the mitres; I found that this worked really well for me, you can pin the mitres together easily while they are clamped. This forum is about helping people to do things when they ask, and this is a tip offered that I hope may help someone who doesn't have all the tools which you may have.
Lets all try and be helpful together!
AJ
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I think part of the problem is that you can cut the mitres as accurately as you like, but don't assume that an older door frame is square ;-)
An interesting discussion. I had the opposite problem to the OP on one of the doorways upstairs in my renovation, in that once dotted and dabbed, a new blockwork wall stood proud of the door casing by about 7mm. I used thin batten to bring the casing level with the wall, to fit the architrave, but stupidly aligned the batten with the edge of the casing, rather than the edge of the architrave, which made it interesting when I came to cut the hinge rebates. Then I changed my mind on which way I wanted it to open.
Cheers Richard
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AJH wrote:

Not at cross purposes at all, after reading the OP I (correctly) assumed that JW was after a non-skimmed, decorated finish to the boards - and your post assumed that he was skimming them.

Which you did not make clear by the way - and made several incorrect assumptions.

I don't need to "ask a plasterer" - I've worked with dozens of them over the years - and know what is needed on both plastered and fair-finish stud partitions having done them for many a year.

Believe me, it is done when circumstances require it - or rather picky Clerk of the Works wanted it done!
JW doesn't say the linings are

It depends on the thickness of the material - and whether you can reduce and high spots first with a plane etc!

Now are you talking about stud partitions or plasterboard stuck onto brick/block wall using the dot and dab method?
There is a difference - and I left those to the plastering teams anyway!

I was 'taught' how to do it over 40 years ago - both theoretically and practically!

You don't need a "mitre saw" - there's no such thing - unless you mean one of the patented mitre jigs (complete with saw) that you can now buy.
I cut my mitres by hand, using a crosscut or tenon saw (depending on the size of material) - either 'free-hand" on large stock, or with a home-made mitre block on small and intricate stock as and when needed.
If you are cutting mitres by hand it's not that easy to get the

Simple mitres to a standard architrave are easy to do with a bit of practice and forethought - even on out-of-square frames - buy a decent, good quality mitre or combination square and have a go (leave the cheap, inferior ones well alone).
Small gaps can be caulked no problem, but if

No argument there.

To me, that seems an awkward method and would mean more time and effort to do the job - along with the high odds that the architraves will fall apart as you lift them, especially if you are talking about wider than normal door openings.

Erm, isn't that what I tried to do in response to the OP?
Als you offered the tips, I criticised them (and still do) - and in this world, that's how people learn.

I thought that I was being helpful, but I can't please all of the people all of the time - but that's life!
Also I have done the job professionally for years (as a time served chippie) and know most of the tips and tricks on stud partitions - both legitimate and dirty - but even though I have now put away the box of tools professionally (but my wife and family makes sure that they will never go rusty now that I'm home permanently), I am still prepared to learn new ones from those in the know.
So let's bang the lid on this with a few 6" round head nails (and a bit of decorators caulking to hide the heads ;-) ) AJ and agree to differ.
Cash
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Clogging up the forum with reams of verbose postings really isn't helping anyone is? No one is trying to score Brownie points here so chill out buddy
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AJH wrote:

Kettle calling saucepan black comes to mind here AJ, as I would suggest that your original post to the OP was rather difficult to read due to poor formatting, supercilious and irrelevant - especially as you had not read the OP correctly.

I don't have to "score Brownie points" - I just know what I am doing in the realm of stud partitions and plasterboard (and other sheet and boarded) finishes (and far more than you it would appear) - and neither do I have to "chill out" and nor am I your "buddy" (damned Amercanisms, I hate the bloody things)!
Now, as I have just this very night become a grandfather again, and feeling in a rather good mood, I have tempered my response to a rather gentle chiding - and shall leave it at that!
So as I said in my previous response to you: "let's bang the lid on this with a few 6" round head nails - with a bit of decorators caulking to hide the heads" - thus stopping any further 'flames' in their tracks.
A very good night to you AJ
Cash
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Hey Chaps,
I appreciate both of your responses - on this and other postings I've made. Please let's not have you falling out on this group, which is an absolute mine of information, and has remained one of the most consistently valuable newsgroups I've known.
And Cash - congratulations on becoming a granddad again.
Cheers
JW
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John Whitworth wrote:

Thanks for that JW - and sorry for the delay in responding.
All the best
Cash
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wrote:

what you are doing is very unhealthy, you should come out for some fresh air
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Thanks for all of the responses. As usual, I've learnt a lot. Mainly to take more care in getting the stud wall more upright next time. But it wasn't too bad as a first attempt.
Anyway, I've cut all of my skirting and architrave ready for priming etc, and when I hold it against the door, to be perfectly honest, the run out doesn't show as much as I imagined. And also, once it's all glossed white, it will show even less.
I'm going ahead with finishing the stud wall without plastering. As I said to the other half, if it looks shite, it can always be re-done later - but I'm fairly confident it's going to be OK. I plumped for this after chatting with a work colleague, who actually did his whole extension without plastering (i.e. just taping and painting over). I did get all of the existing walls plastered in the garage, but I thought I'd get away with this last one!
Fingers crossed! :-)
JW

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