# Workshop In An Alternate Homepower Environment

wmbjk wrote:

Ah Wayne, it looks like your saying 5kW for 1.6 hours and claiming that it equates to 6 amp hours.
Would you like to refrase that amd perhaps look at the maths.
You use of units may be suspect. And your numbers would suggest that you can only work when the sun is out.
5Kw input for 1.6 hours at 24V looks suspiciously like 333Ah.
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wrote:

I started at about 8AM, and I finished up at about 4PM. During that time, 2000 Watts of tracked PV was doing its job, along with a tiny bit of help from 1300 Watts of wind generator in the AM. Duh!
Even after all your pathetic nonsense, I'm still astonished that with your claimed 20 years of experience, that you need such simple concepts explained to you. Haven't you learned *anything*? How the hell can you function? As usual, whatever you do, don't admit that you just wrote perhaps *the* biggest blunder of your Usenet career, or apologise for it. But if you had one iota of shame, you'd go stand in the corner for the next 20 years.
BTW, in your haste to act the fool, you failed to notice an actual mistake - that I wrote "inches per second" wire speed when I should have written inches per *minute*. Can't you do *anything* right?
Wayne
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wmbjk wrote:

We now know that you have 2000 watts of PV and 1300 Watts of wind.
Actual PV & wind production numbers, Watt hours will do.
Do you even know what was produced and used during that day?
If, and it is a big if, you in fact were producing energy at the rated output for say 6 hours of the day which would be on the order of 19.7kWh and you drew another 144Wh from the batteries, well you can see the problem. You say 5kW input. Your numbers are vague at best.

Well lets see. All you had to do was account for the numbers you used.
5kW input wonderful. Yes I made a mistake, I used 100 minutes when in fact you meant 8 hours. Sorry. So this would be 5kW for 8 hours which is of course 40kWh which is 1666.66 Amp hours. Is this your wonderful two days autonomy at work.
Now Wayne would you like to account for the energy you used in a coherent manner? 5kW or 5kWh? Do you know the difference?
The biggest blunder - YOURS.
Who cares about inches per minute or seconds. What does the welder draw in watts? How many amps, what material thickness, how much penetration?
It is easy to tell when you are out of your depth. The deeper you are the more you foam at the mouth.
George
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That troll still lives here? Does he ever talk home power or still just a troll?
I was wondering if I should take him out of my bozo bin yet? He could have something interesting to say if he took Eunty Jeck's cock out of his mouth.
You need to trim better or top post , George (both would be even better for most)

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On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 11:33:52 -0400, "John P Bengi" <JBengi (spamm)@(spamm) yahoo,com> AKA gimmy bob, pizza girl, piezo guru, larry lix, etc. etc. wrote:

Let's see, you responded directly to one of my posts in this very same thread, on June 14th http://tinyurl.com/b4cds . How were you able to do that if I'm filtered? Busted yourself again there Gymmy Boob.
As I've warned you before, so long as you're posting 24-7 in dozens of groups, you're going to have trouble keeping track of which lies each of your identities has told. If you were to get off your butt once in a while and walk around a bit instead, perhaps the increased circulation would make it easier for you to keep things straight.
Wayne
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How is this done, getting 220V from 110? How do you get the two "hot" wires? Are there 2 secondary windings on the transformer? Wouldn't they need to be out of phase with each other?
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He stated the method in his last sentence. Transformer.

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The magic is "the right transformer'. <grin>
a 2:1 step-up tranformer.
120V primary 240V center-tapped secondary.
No magic. just good engineering.
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Now here is a fellow that asks an inteligent question. If you take a dual winding secondary with 120 Vac on each winding, feeding it with a 120 Vac Primary, and connect the dual 120Vac windings in series you get 240Vac. The phase is determined on how you connect the two series windings. and they will either be inphase or 180 out of phase, depending on the connection.
Me
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Thank you :-)
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Me wrote:

Either 240V give or take a few due to coupling differences or Zero give or take a few due to coupling differences.
When it is zero the phasing is wrong and must be reversed on one winding. Many electronic transformers have black dots on the 'true' winding lead to make phasing easier. Power is just the same simply a single frequency.
Martin
--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
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"lionslair at consolidated dot net" <"lionslair at consolidated dot net"> wrote in message

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Since we are on the subject it occured to me that I have a 120 to 240 V transformer that I removed from the first house I bought. The not-real-bright person I bought the house from left it attached and hot with a male plug sticking out where anyone walking by could run into it. I'll have to dig it out of it's box-in-the-garage and see if I can make use of it, now that I have some understanding of how it's supposed to work and be connected :-) \
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Something else I've wondered about is why is it sometimes called 220, other times 230, and also 240VAC? Do the different voltages imply single or double phase or is it just a matter of different voltages in different geographic locations? My little Honda generator is rated at 125 VAC which seems to be unusual and that would give us 250 VAC if it was ran through the step-up transformer.
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The common voltage in Canada was always 120/240v. I believe the USA was the same except that the USanians have their own measurement system for almost everything else so who knows about what they nay have done.
Equipment was rated at 100v, 115v, 117v and 120 v over the years. This was mostly just due to ignorance and foreign ignorance. The same thing happened with 240v. It was labelled 220v, 230v and 240v. Some equipment is still labelled at 250v which is only a class of equipment distinction. (max capability).
This all applies to single phase descriptions. Some of the confusion can attributed to 3 phase systems were 208v, 220v and 240v have been used and bleeds over into single phase systems.
600v, 3 phase systems went through the same thing with 559v, 575v and 600v being used. The US and western Canada use 480V systems and I am sure went through the same crap of 440v etc..
The network style voltage or as some called it "3 phase 4 wire one leg out" is used in apartment and multi dwelling complexes. They have 3 phase 4 wire transformation and run two out of three phases (with shared neutral) to each apartment floor or unit. This would give them 120/208v circuits. The 208v is quite low for the 240v baseboard and appliances so they compromise both voltages and came up with 125v/216v (root 3 factor). The 125 v is a little high but within specs (+/-10%) and the 216v is a little but within the specs also. Tougher lamps are in order to survive on this system. The end result is much less copper to feed a huge complex.
The end result is there are many terms falsely used but mostly compatible.
I hope some of this helps.

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John P Bengi Boob wrote:

Bullshit. If you REALLY worked for a 'medium sized generation company' you would have known that.
It was 110 then started climbing. It was most likely even below the 110 level many years ago. As more and more load was added to existing networks, the voltage HAD to climb in order to provide more power on the same distribution lines. It's a money saving move by the generation/distribution companies.
When there is low network loading here, the line voltage will climb to 127 volts. During peak demand, it will go down to 110 to 115 volt range.
snipped rest of very suspicious posting..
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It's a matter of history. The "standard" -- for what was expected at the outlet in a residence -- changed over the years as power distribution got better.
Circa WW II line voltage was 110VAC. by the mid 50's, this had climbed to 115VAC. by the early 60's, 117VAC. By the late 60', 120V. The 'two hots' circuit was frequently called "220", even when the actual voltage was as high as 235 (2x117). "240" does seem to have mostly displaced the old name.
Anyway, if somebody mentions a number in the 110-120 "or so" range, they're talking about the same thing. Ditto for anything in the 220-240 range. "208" is a "special" value. as is "277". Both having to do with specific arrangements of 'three-phase' circuits.
Your Honda is probably at claimed 125V because of *lousy* voltage regulation. 125V at 'no load', dropping to 120V (or lower) as the load increases.
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Thanks (to both of you). I can now sleep better at night knowing that there is no significant difference between 230 and 240 VAC ;-)
My little Honda generator is the inverter type so I suspect the voltage regulation is extremely good. I don't recall ever having a need to check it so I don't know offhand if it's accurate or not. I'll probably be checking it soon though because this morning my circular saw was not starting (as though it was not plugged in) and then my belt sander was having trouble getting up to speed. I was also running a 40 amp battery charger so I may have gone over capacity on the poor little Honda. But the Honda has about 12,000 hours on it (original engine) so I guess I can't expect too much from it.

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Robert Bonomi wrote:

I've seen 125V used in high density housing - simply to lower the current in the same wires.
Our house in the mountains of No. Ca. was a few miles from a swinging transformer. Under low load, the transformer was at one voltage, as the current increased, the transformer switched in another set of windings up until it hit an end. The swinging transformer had massive make-before-break contacts that always rang (voltage hits) as it moved. I called the power company when it started hitting my lines heavy (I was logging them on my APC's) and they found a burnt contact.
So at one time or another, depending on load and speed of the swinger - it could be many voltages.
Martin
--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
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lionslair at consolidated dot net <"lionslair at consolidated dot net"> wrote:

[[.. munch ..]]

[[.. munch ..]]

At one point I lived "across the parking lot" from the local sub-station. the feed came out of the substation, down *one* pole, with the transformer and the drop to the 6 apartment building I was living in. the building was turn-of-the-century construction, with -- I think -- still original wiring. I could get an *nine* volt drop at the wall, by kicking on one of my pieces of electronic test gear -- one that drew about 8 amps. *OUCH*.
Anyway, I'm across the street from a school, 2 blocks from a *big* hospital, And had several other sizable 'commercial' users within a few blocks. A line-voltage monitor showed as high as 133V in early AM, with it slowly and somewhat erratically falling to about 127V by somewhere after 9AM on a week-day.
*THAT* led to a call/complaint to the electric company, Demanding that they get the voltage down to the 'proper' level. (That degree of excess voltage _is_ hard on equipment, and other things. Reduces the effective life of incandescent bulbs by about _half_, in fact.)
For some reason, customer service didn't want to believe me -- I guess complaints about "too much power" are *really* rare. :)
They suggested that what I was reporting "couldn't be happening". That whatever I was using to read the voltage must be 'in error'.
I pointed out that I had _five_ separate pieces of test equipment, by five different manufacturers, that were all telling the _same_ story, within about 2V (analog readout uncertainty on some of the meters). That all were industrial- and/or lab-grade gear. That the precision-reading unit (readable to 1/4v or finer) had been used for 'reference checks' at half-a-dozen other locations around the city, and registered 118.5 - 121.5 at *every* other location. (About the only thing I didn't have was a _recording_ meter / data- logger. :)
They _grudgingly_ agreed to send an engineer out to see me. He took one look at my 'bench', and said "Hell, you've got better equipment there than _I_ do." Then, looked at my readings and said "that's not right!" (He didn't even bother to cross-check with his own gear.) Borrowed my phone, called in to the office, and ordered an _immediate_ roll of a maintenance team to the substation, and goes outside to wait for the crew to show up. Which they did, in less than 15 minutes. Less than half an hour later, my instrumentation is showing a "respectable" 117V. rising all the way to 123V when the rest of the neighborhood shut down.
I even got a credit on my bill -- where they went back an re-figured what the kilowatt-hours _should_ have been if they had not been delivering 'too high' voltage. I'd only lived there a few months, but they back-credited to the date I moved in. It was about 15% of everything I'd paid.
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Robert Bonomi wrote:

I call bullshit on the credit! As if..............
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