Workshop In An Alternate Homepower Environment

[Cliff]

I don't think so (but it's possible). Sometimes, with a few others, I only reply to a slight snippet (see jb & Gunner & crew) with a sharp poke .

For most the subject (or a specific subset of it), not the author, is the subject (whoops .. a tautology?)

Usually I quote the specific bit I'm responding to (for the proper context). I like SHORT, easy-on-the-reader posts, little forced scrolling to find the context, and brevity, usually.

Some of the others like huge essays .... but I find that a few well placed words usually do most of the time. One may also usually assume that the reader recently read the prior full post that the reply is in response to.

[Cliff]

I suspect that one day they will do automatic online updates ... and error reports via Email back to MS.

[Cliff]

Found a long lost relative, eh? Congratulations !!!

[Cliff]

It's always fun to watch him arguing with himself .

[Upscale]

You can already configure it to update automatically. Most people don't like that including myself. It's tantamount to turning almost complete control of your computer over to someone else. (or some company).

I equate that to pre-authorized chequing which I monitor very closely. For the most part, it works out ok, but for the times when your account is debited for something without your permission. And then comes the time when you've terminated all purchases from a company, but they continue to debit your account.

[Charlie Self]

Had one of those, once. They billed and refused to credit 14 days after I closed it down, and told me it "might" happen again. I closed the account an hour later and threatened to sue them for the payment. I didn't get the money back, but they sure as hell didn't get anything else from me, nor will they ever.

[John P Bengi]

BTW Cliff: Most of that other thread was not my postings. It was a super troll we have been trying to demolish for the last 6 months on a few groups. He doesn't like the vcomplaints to his ISP and News providers so he forges my nickname and treis to libel me in any group I visit.

His last known commonly used name is Bunty Jeck. Previously known as Aunty Jack, Eunty JEck, Gymmy Bob, nunja, M II, Taz, Tez, Tbz, T@z, Troll killer and over 300 incarnations of those basic ones over the last year. Very mentally ill (OCD) individual in bed with Wayne and M II here or the same person.

Sorry for the confusion but I gave up on that thread. I only post from golden.net. Check the headers

[Morris Dovey]

F. George McDuffee expostulated:

| It would be interesting to know how much in deductions the | corporation took on their tax returns over the last 5 or 10 years | for market research and product R&D. Article in Wed. June 22 WSJ | discusses shift in consumer priorities for major appliances from | stolid dependability to flash and glitz, which may help explain | why the "dependability people" are now in deep do-do.

It's probably worthwhile to take note of the fact that I'm not a "Maytag Expert" and that I can't provide very much more than firsthand observations (that may or may not be safe to use as the basis for generalizations) and inexpert opinion - garnered while working as a software consultant with their R&D group. Since all of the products under development of which I had knowledge have been announced and/or shipped, I'm free to speak openly.

On the R&D side, Maytag has extraordinarily competent engineers and researchers who're as enthusiastic and eager as any I've ever seen elsewhere. There aren't many of them - and they seemed much under-appreciated by their management. My thought was (and remains) that any of Maytag's competitors could ruin the firm simply by offering this one engineering group an industry competive wage and management guaranteed to provide genuine appreciation of past and future accomplishments. With careful research, a competitor could simultaneously put Maytag's future in grave jeopardy and greatly enhance their own prospects for as little as $500K/year. In my mind, for a Fortune 300 company this is tantamount to gross negligence on the part of management.

| On the other hand, flash and glitz are only skin deep, and how | much can it cost and how long can it take to have a design studio | "re-skin" a washer or drier, and how much can it cost to shoot | metal flake paint in place of white? As an aside, the American | people deserve what they get on this one..

Flash and glitz /are/ cheap and easy. Solid dependability and quality of function are more difficult and generally expensive to achieve - no surprises here. My task as a consultant was to provide a technical solution that was expected to drasticly reduce that expense. I provided the requested solution (which incorporated solutions to the usual variety of unanticipated side issues) and to the best of my knowlege, that package was shelved because it required a degree of interdepartmental cooperation/communication that too many of the first-line development managers weren't prepared to exercise. (Bummer!)

A related issue had to do with more than healthy managerial resistance to technology more advanced than a motor-driven cycle controller - even after their horizontal-axis (front loading) Neptune washer had provided proof positive that micros are here to stay! I was by definition a "short timer" and that attitude was grindingly frustrating to me. I don't want to think about how frustrating it has to be for the R&D folks who're intending to stay with Maytag for the long haul...

| In response to another reply, the questions about the likely | outcomes for senior management were rhetorical, although your | detailed answers were insightful. This helps explain the | "shortage" of engineers and the rapidly declining number of | engineering students. Even the "nerdest" engineer can look | up/around and see that while they (and the rest of the "product" | people) are taking it in the shorts big time, management and | finance are riding off with full boodle bags. While both groups | will have some time off, for the product people it will be a mad | scramble for another job so they can keep the house and the car, | while the management and finance people are resting in Cancun. | | Do you happen to know if the Maytag pension plans are fully | funded, or is this another "debt bomb" that will be lobbed into | the PBGC? How about medical care for current retirees? Off | Maytag and onto the taxpayers through Medicare?

I don't know. Actually, I didn't pay much attention to anything unrelated to R&D and/or some specific product development. I sat through (too many) meetings and took notice of what was being said about the technology and politics involved with getting the vertical-axis (top loading) Neptune product working and out the door - and the implementation of a methodology to streamline development of all future cycle-based "whiteware".

| We need something more than biased B-school case studies. What do | you think of an economic/financial equivalent to the NTSB that | would investigate major corporate "crash and burn" cases? These | could well be a job for Dr. Kavorikan and not a "crash-cart" and | life-support situation. | | In the aggregate the major loss/damage caused by not only Maytag, | but also Enron, Tyco, Ford, EMC, Delta, American, etc., etc., is | a total loss of confidence in the competence and motives of | management by not only their employees, but the majority of | stockholders and the American people.

I'd encourage you to make an at least internal distinction between failures resulting from fundamental dishonesty with intent to defraud - and failures resulting from stupidity, lack of due diligence, etc. on the part of fundamentally well-intentioned people. If I were to choose a single cause for Maytag's failure to thrive (which would be a huge over-simplification), that cause would be the selection of a succession of CEO's who lacked the wisdom to define success and to lead their people in that direction.

Your summary is basically true; but would you really expect that a government agency /could/ do more than throw good money after bad in these cases? If so, you're far more optimistic than I'd dare to be.

One final comment. One of my first questions after starting work at Maytag (and I did ask every single person I worked with) was: "What does it take to make dirty clothes clean?". What I was after were things like how much water per pound of clothes during wash and rinse, how much agitation, how much cleaning agent, etc. with some kind of mathematical relationships and some numbers. No one knew! I was (and still am) dumbfounded that no one at Maytag had ever made a serious effort to define in engineering terms what it takes to make clothes clean. Think about the implications of that tidbit as you ponder business failure causes...

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[JohnM]

You go back and look at the thread where we disagreed over the atomic bombing of the Japanese cities and you'll see where I accused you of cutting what I said, resulting in an altered context.

I find your few, well placed words to often sound like you haven't thought of anything constructive. "Winger!, WMD's!", etc. Maybe the readers you prefer need it kept simple?

I don't believe that to be a safe assumption. You go through a thread on a day and you see the posts between then and the last time you looked. There may be responses to something you read three days ago, twenty lines up the thread. There's usually a middle ground between giving enough information about what you're responding to that you're showing consideration for your readers and cutting enough to not waste people's time. Myself, I prefer to err on the side of too much information.

John

[Gunner]

Bye f****it.

Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

[Upscale]

Funny, you already said goodbye one and you've doing it again. Must be that low memory retention you have. Either that or you just don't know how to end an argument.

[F. George McDuffee]

Fantastic analysis and insight. Depressing though.

While working on my doctorate I took several HRD/HRM classes which were mainly case studies. I was astounded by the number of firms with management that had to hire consultants to find out what it was they were producing, how they were producing it, what workers they had, who they were producing it for, and most critical, how it worked.

In several of the cases that were about 10-15 years apart, the general descriptions of the firms were very similar. Some checking indicates that these indeed were the same companies with the same questions. FWIW, these companies are again in the news, teetering on bankruptcy.

You may be right >F. George McDuffee expostulated:

[Arnold Walker]

A more accurate answer is that Toyota and Honda chose to capitalize on the PC ,while GM,Mercedes ,and the of the auto world chose to look for an engine. That actually was more effecent at something other than emptying your pockets.

Stanley had third market manufacturers converting thier steamcars to air in the early 1900's. Many steamtrains are now ran on air due to boiler code worrys by insurance companies. If you ever get back to science,instead politics ....you will notice, much of what is new is an old idea rehashed. I ,personally, am happy building the equipment instead of relying on a another person's word on the information. If you really must get fried on your information ......the patent office has about 150years of air drive and electric drive vehicles to flame with you.I don't see the point.

[Cliff]

Not going to go search but I'm certain that I altered nothing in what I quoted. It could well be that what I quoted showed your general attitude rather well though .

Like many of the wingers? Perhaps so. Even than, many still don't get it, or so it seems. Look at poor Gunner .. Much, if not all, of such has been coverd so many times before and they well know it (or should). I see no need to endlessly repeat the same longish replies laden with facts & reasoning or redo any prior research.

Better than always quoting the entire thing IMHO.

I'll stick with brevity, usually >

[Cliff]

He'd have to be able to have one first.

[Cliff]

My impression of themis one of overpriced stuff that's no better than anyone else's.

Perhaps unerelated ... Sears seems to like to sell models that they (Sears) are the sole supplier of spare parts for .... so take a standard model, rebadge it & alter a few key failure prone or consumable items ...

[Cliff]

Hope you liked the way I trimmed his/her top-posted stuff .

[Me]

CFR (Call for Reference) on the above. as I believe it to be Bullshit..... the only Steampowered Trains still in existance, and in commercial service are in third and fouth world countries, and mostly run on diesel fired boilers. Turning big air compressors with diesel engines is a very wastefull way to move Railroad Rolling Stock.

Me

[Juergen Hannappel]

I think so too, especially because even without the water an old boiler pressurized with air is also no small danger.

There *might* be some stored steam engines still running, typically in chemistry or power plants where steam is available anyway and can be filled into the engine easily.

[John P Bengi]