Woodcraft vs Rockler

On their generic stuff is their anyone that has used both and see any difference in overall quality in things like chisels, router bits, Forstner bits. speaking of woodriver vs Rockler ??
Like I thought I got a good deal on a set but only got about 15 or so holes using a 3/4? bit, and the young lady at their store said yep, that is about all they are good for. :(
So I figured well at least I got a few good holes, and when I replace it, I'll go for a better brand. But I don't see any with carbide cutting surfaces. At least not yet.
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On 10/27/16 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:

Both of their house brand stuff is the same Chiwanese crap. It is what it is. Take any house branded tools in either store, divide the price in half, and if it woulds too good to be true, it is.
If you need something for hundreds of holes, like a 35mm (1-3/8") concealed hinge Forstner bit, go with something name-brand and not the house generic.
I pick up their stuff when it goes on sale for 50% off and consider it "bonus" tools that I keep in the van for when I need it. But I never, ever consider any of the Woo-Driver or Rockler Blue shite production quality tools.
--

-MIKE-

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wrote:

I was afraid of that.
When I was working for a living I remember a wood bit that came out that had a head like a Forstner bit, short shank but it was touted as being able to almost make a U turn in the wood. Well it can in real handy for running copper tubing, and power in the studs and headers of walls and lasted, well long enough I don't remember buying any more when one got lost or a new guy came in.
When I saw these Forstner bits for wood working I though Great, they must even be better. Bah humbug, wasn't the case.
I just bought three different 3/4 bits at Home despot, one or two? With carbide, going to see which works better. All Name brands.
For my router bits I now go to a sharpening shop where they actually stock the good stuff. Oddly the prices aren't all that much different for one-offs.
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On 10/27/16 11:15 PM, OFWW wrote:

I have to back off on my statement a bit. (<--- PUN!) I just went out and checked the bit I was thinking of when I wrote that and it turns out it was, in fact, the Woodcraft Woodriver brand. This one... http://www.woodcraft.com/product/142511/forstner-bit-carbide-tipped-35mm.aspx
However, as you can see, it's not exactly cheap. It's carbide tipped and very well made. This thing drilled a few hundred hinge holes in oak cabinet doors and is still very sharp.
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wrote:

I hadn't seen that one.
In looking at carbide bits at the box stores the cheap ones have thinner carbide "Teeth"? tips?
Is that one still easy to see the center point of the bit when spinning?
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On 10/28/16 2:13 PM, OFWW wrote:

Honestly, I couldn't say. I set up a positioning jig on my drill press the last time I used it because I was doing dozens of doors.
I also ground down the tip because the door frames were pretty thin and I didn't want to risk poking out the front side of the door frames.
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Ah, yes. 3D Zip Bits. I have a set my dad gave me many years ago. I've destroyed the cutting edges on one of them when it cut into a wad of framing naits. Yes a wad. LOL. The others look almost like new except for the expected rub marks from drilling. I think the biggest in my set is 1-1/4. Maybe only 1-1/8.
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On 10/27/2016 10:17 PM, OFWW wrote:

I do find that Rocker is typically less expensive than Woodcraft and that may be a regional thing.
As far as anything Chinese that cuts I would steer clear if you want quality. I would hate to think that you have to get carbide to get an edge that lasts, considering Forstner bits. I have an Austrian made set of Forstner bits that I bought probably 30 years ago. Pretty much still cut very well. I know that I have drilled many hundreds of holes with the 1.375", bit a good substitute for a 35mm bit.
It finally wore out and I replaced with the Rockler carbide bit a few years ago, it is simply "ok".
Look for HSS drill bits and you will do much better.
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wrote:

I'll try that, I dbl checked the woodriver set and they didn't say. Funny thing is they start off with the same line as their Carbide 35mm bit.
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147067/forstner-16-piece-bit-set.aspx
These do burn if not kept within the specified RPM of the size. Even then it depends on the wood drilled.
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On 10/28/2016 3:37 PM, OFWW wrote:

Don't know if you realize it, but carbide is stronger than HSS, but not sharper. HSS can be sharpened much sharper than Carbide.
Carbide lasts longer, takes high heat better, but for a real sharp cut, HSS wins. Just don't overheat it, and the other thing is you can resharpen it. Carbide requires a silicon wheel or diamond to sharpen, while HSS can be sharpened with anything.
so if you want sharp and something that can be maintained, HSS.
--
Jeff

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wrote:

I truly didn't know that. I have had a lot of HSS bits, destroyed some on jobs and had no spares, but always seemed I could cut or grind off that bad parts and then sharpen them and they almost always seemed to be better than when I first got them. Never understood why, but what very glad when it happened. Going to a store to purchase another, if they even had the right sizes ate up a lot of time. Much faster this way.
Is there a minimum standard for HSS? Reason I ask is some say their bits are, yet there is a huge difference in quality.
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On 10/28/2016 8:27 PM, OFWW wrote:

Many tools from the factory are mediocre mass produced sharpened. If you are good at sharpening you can usually do better.

Not sure if there is a standard, but when cost is more important than quality, heat treating may not be as good as another brand.
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<snip>

This last comment reminded me of 8th grade metal shop when we made our own chisels. The point was to pound out the 3/8" Hex cold rolled steel, flatten it on both sides equally, file it, then heat treat it by open flame and sand and oil for tempering. I forgot which came first, oil or sand, but watching the heat travel up the shaft with all its colors was intriguing, especially the blue. Then we had to shape and sharpen the bit, and finally cut something in half. I've forgotten what.
I'll never forget the look on some of the kids faces when their chisel tip shaped itself to the object we were to cut off, knowing my time was coming, and fearful that my chisel would meet the same fate. Well, my chisel passed with flying colors and you couldn't even tell when looking at the edge that it had cut anything. I don't even remember what the grade was on it, but I was very happy, and couldn't wait to show my Dad. I'd swear that even today it is the best chisel I ever had, and as yet I have never had to re sharpen it. But I really don't like to use it unless it cannot be helped since a small chisel is sometimes the only tool for the job.
I have found that on Craftsman Chisels you pretty much have to flatten the tips, then regrind the tip to get to the hardened material, and that was over 30 years ago. Like some of the drill bits people have mentioned here, good ones seem to last forever.
And like you said, re sharpening any tool is almost a given due to mass production standards.
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OFWW wrote:

Sand is obviously for slower cooling, for removing some of the brittleness of your hardened edge. We made a center punch and a screw driver (among other things) in my 8th grade class.
Bill

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wrote:

Come to think of it so did we. I remember turning the knurl on the center punch on the metal lathe. Thought it was so cool, and then just to operate the lathe, what a trip.
Thanks for the memories.

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OFWW wrote:

Likewise! :-)
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You know those cheap drill bits? They actually cut pretty well ONCE SHARPENED. One of the differences between the good DeWalt bits and the "Free after rebate" bits was that the Dewalt bits were sharpened properly.
I was surprised and happy to see how well they cut out of the box. A properly sharp drill bit will cut quite fast through wood.
Puckdropper
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On 10/29/2016 6:49 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

And metal too.
--
Jeff

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*trim*

A little lube really helps with metal.
Puckdropper
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Lie Neilsen tells you that their chisels are flattened and sharpened to #400 grit and recommends further sharpening and polishing.

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