Barry Burke responds:
And damned few poor folks own SUVs. Too bad ownership hasn't remained confined to people will to take them where they belong, off-road.
Charlie Self
"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime. " Adlai E. Stevenson
Swingman posits:
It might, but, then I wasn't describing anyone getting their knob polished anywhere since it's a total irrelevancy.
Charlie Self
"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime. " Adlai E. Stevenson
"Charlie Self" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m03.aol.com...
They are in business to grow revenues. If the government stops them from doing that freely, then the attractiveness of the business is greatly reduced. If you add up all the assets of Pfizer (the company I happen to work for, so I do have some insight here), it is only about 60% of their market capitalization. The other 40% is from shareholders opinion of our growth, our future revenues. If the government limits our ability to grow, then we become a bad investment.
This opinon of yours is so misguided and inaccurate it literally made me laugh out loud. The pharmaceutical companies are in those markets because there is a potential to make a profit. Sure, the free market of the US might bear some of the burden in this system, but if a large enough population starts going to Canada and reduces profits in the US, all the pharmaceutical companies are going to do is to either stop offering their drugs in those markets (this is the most likely scenario), or attempt to negotiate with those markets for different trade practices. Either way, consumers going to Canada is only ensuring one thing - that they are compromising their health by increasing the likelihood that they get duped by some illegitimate third-party schlepping cheap drugs in front of their faces.
They might not STOP, but they might have to lay-off hundreds of thousdands of employees and greatly scale back their research and production activities. Sort of like the airlines. They didn't stop flying, but they changed their ways to deal with the situation. I'm sure you're looking forward to a government controlled airline, too.
I only have experience in a limited number of locations personally, but have been told first-hand from friends that have dealt with these things. A friend of mine in England, for example, needed surgery that was deemed "elective". He was in a great deal of pain, but it wasn't life threatening. So, he waited almost a YEAR!! to get the surgery. He looked up the same surgery and procedures in the US and found he would have likely had the surgery within a week in the US. For my own part, I was in Quebec on vacation and came down with a extremely serious illness and had to go to the hospital for some blood tests. They had blood analyzers on the receptionist counter so that the charge nurse (if that's what they're called) could analyze samples in between answering phones, filling out paperwork, checking in patients, etc. And, they insisted I pay in cash in full before they would even let me in the phlebotomy chair. And they charged me up the ass, thank you very much! But, that's beside the point. My point is that socialist-run medicine means fewer choices and likely mediocre at best services. Are you really willing to go that route in the US, just so you can save some money on prescriptions? I know you'll say "prescriptions are one thing, the medical system is another", but I beg to differ. The two are related, and it isn't too hard to see how letting the government control one aspect will likely lead to them getting their hands on everything.
I just mean that the burden on our society by the lapsing social security system, other social systems, un-insured individuals, etc. by the "baby boomers" scares me to death. I really wonder lately listening to the more aged of my colleagues and their paranoid, almost terrified, view of their existences whether our nation will make it through their ability to screw up the country. Do you really want a bunch of geriatrics having the power to influence decision making legislation? Last I checked, only a slim minority of the let's say 70+ crowd really thought too much about the future other than their own. My grandmother lived to be 89 and the last about 10 years of her life were spent being terrified of anyone under the age of 35. I guess "they" will have their chance to get all of us "young'uns" back soon enough.
Mike
Lying under oath, impeachment and disbarment ... "total irrelevancies". What a champion for the old cause, eh?
First, I don't necessarily dispute the figure, but can you back up the 4 million to 12 million number? I'd be shocked to learn than there were only
4 million federal government workers when Bush took office (even excluding the military). Heck, I'd be suprised if it was only 12 million before or after.I don't have an answer where the money goes in the rat hole we call the public education system. Seems that I just saw a report that says the United States spends more money per child on education than any other major country in the world. My children aren't in school yet, so I haven't had an up-close look at the school system as an adult. Maybe I'd have a better handle on the problem if I did. And the states are screaming for more federal money because the feds are mandating testing that the states say they don't have the money for. I guess if they were doing their job in the first place, all of this testing wouldn't be necessary.
I'm a mildly disgruntled Republican in that I haven't agreed with everything this administration has done. I think there have been mistakes, but unfortunately, there isn't a book that tells you what to do after terrorist-controlled planes kill a few thousand Americans. My hope for Iraq is that there is a broader strategy at work that is aimed at containing the Middle East, but it's the kind of plan you can't publish in the newspaper. You can't convince me that the whole idea is to get some sweetheart deals for Haliburton. Laura Bush would not be married to someone who would trade American lives for Haliburton contracts.
todd
Swingman responds:
Why don't you wait until you catch the ball before you run with it. You get a lot of drops doing it your way. I didn't mention Clinton to start with. You mentioned knob polishing. I responded to that comment. You add more about Clinton.
All of which has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with George W. Bush and his abilities or lack of, something you are having a problem grasping, and something I'm not interested in pursuing further at this time.
Charlie Self
"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime. " Adlai E. Stevenson
Mike in Mystic responds:
Actually, what they're trying to do is force the feds to control the market for them.
You can laugh, but your opinion is based on inside information that stops at the walls of your office or lab.
I've heard this one time and again and seen neither proof nor any kind of rationale. The cheap drugs being schlepped are the cheap drugs manufactured by divisions of U.S. companies in other countries. Or they're from non-U.S. companies where the U.S. division is the overseas unit.
I'm not looking forward to a government controlled anything, but I'd sure as hell like to see a medical set up in this country that works for everyone: the most recent figures I've seen tell me that 41+ million Americans are without health insurance. From personal experience, I can tell you that can be both painful and expensive. The expense comes from the medical community having allowed insurance companies to lock them in in charges for insureds. Thus, if you're between policies for any reason, and you're not on the dole, you pay from two to three times the insurance established cost for medical treatment.
Jesus. I wonder why!
Charlie Self
"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime. " Adlai E. Stevenson
I feel for you. My last one is graduates from High School this year.
In the past 20 years I have watched the public school system deteriorate, while the taxes to pay for it increase to disbelief (I will pay $7000+ in school taxes alone for 2003 on my only residence ... just got the bill).
From where I sit the biggest impediment to education in this neck of the woods, as politically incorrect as it may appear, is racial bickering. Racial issues permeate every single decision in this school district to such an extent that the educrats, black, brown, or white, are paralyzed into ineffectualness making sure that someone else doesn't get something they don't. The only aim they serve is shooting themselves in their collective foot.
I will say this unequivocally about Bush's education appointment. Rod Paige is an idiot and a closet bigot. He was one when he was here, and he is a bigger one in Washington. The man speaks in pleasing platitudes and fully expects his words alone to take the place of actions. This is not arrogance. He is, in short, and typical of so many of our educrats, educated beyond his intelligence. He is simply incapable of any action that is not politically or racially motivated. Under his administration cheating on standardized tests was rampant and fraud in almost every aspect of his administration kept the local TV "investigative journalist" in beans and weenies during his tenure.
With him at the Federal level, expect things to only get worse for the rest of you.
You didn't mention Clinton? Read your own words: "I do love this bit though: Clinton had nothing to do with the good times on his watch, but all the crap that's falling on Bush is Clinton's fault."
Your memory is apparently as short as your reversionary tendencies are long.
Here I go ... to get the Windex to clean the Jack/water off the monitor. ;>)
This is why I read this NG almost every day. Two accomplished woodworkers, who are nice guys and gentlemen, discussing politics.
I'm just gonna sit back and read.
Barry
On 19 Sep 2003 18:19:21 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) pixelated:
Oh, SHIT! You can NOT be serious, Mike.
Very shortly now, we're going to have a death count from the Little Shrubbery War which is higher than the WTC attack. The sad fact is that VERY little has been done to actually PROTECT us because there is no way TO protect a free society. One person can break into an armory (explosives cache, etc.) and find enough boom booms to level half a city, then be halfway across the country before it was found out. One errant soldier could do even worse damage. What if that tank in LoCal a couple years ago was fully armed and he wanted to do damage? He could have leveled several city blocks before a rocket took him out.
Look how long it took to stop a simple sniper last year!
No, we're throwing away billions on false wars and false defenses and it's making me sick. The terrorist are gettig their way. We are no longer an entirely free nation and we're tossing more and more of our freedoms and rights away with each new bill through congress. As a country, we let fear stop us from living and moving about. It's absolutely assinine. Wake UP, boys & girls.
I'm voting ANYBODY BUT BUSH at the next election. I hope we have someone actually -worth- a vote by then, but I'm not holding my breath.
----------------------------------------- Jack Kevorkian for Congressional physician!
That sounds like a big number to me too. We do have to bear in mind the DEMOCRATS are the ones who insisted on the government running the airport security. That added about 50,000 employees the first day.
Leon, Houston was indeed booming in the 70s and employing tens of thousands of displayed auto workers from Michigan and other mid eaetern states. The Windfall Profits Tax was proposed by Jimmy Carter and was enacted in 1980. By 1983, Houston was a dustbowl with over 2000 forclosures a month, the VA and FHA were selling forclosed homes in lots of 100 for about .25 cents on the 1980 dollar.
While the rest of the US prospered on the low price of energy, we in the south floundered and even our own legislators and a Texas president could have cared less. Republican Phil Graham voted against federal money to retrain displaced oil workers. GWB did nothing to help us either.
Those engineers that were tossing coins to decide where to work? They didn't have coins to toss. I know guys that were making $5000 a month in
1980 that ended up working for $8 an hour 5 years later. Homes bought for $150k were forclosed and sold at auction for less than 1/2 that. One friend put $65,000, his entire life savings, down on a home and later lost it to forclosure. Even after that much down, he couldn't sell it for less than he owed.All you folks despise the "evil" oil companies and forget that real people with families are working for them, just like you. We're trying to pay our bills, raise our kids and enjoy our lives too. Gasoline is, by an order of magnittue, the most inflation proof comodity there is. If the price of gas appreciated like the price of cars, you'd be paying $15 a gallon for it. But do you see me whining about the excess profits of GMAC, which are in fact, HUGE!! Nope because I want folks working in Michigan. It is good for this country. Ross Perot was right about that huge sucking sound of jobs going to Mexico and I hate it. I know it isn't good for the country.
Incidentally, I've done my part. I just bought a brand new GMC Yukon, nearly $40,000, and I did it with OIL money.
Bruce
They spend more on marketing than research of late.
Tell me why an "established', been-around-a while-medicine went from ~ $40 to $200 in about a year?
Renata
(no stain for email)
Interesting how he sees that the pharma companies spend billions on research and yet he doesn't see that the oil companies do the same drilling dry holes.
I lived most of my life under the Canadian healthcare system, and it worked very well for me. And I *never* personally knew anyone who was mistreated in any way. Now that I live in the U.S., I heard lots of horror stories about people turned away because of inadequate or no insurance. In my opinion, it is the U.S. system which is horrid.
So, basically, the elderly
I recall a CBS 60 Minutes episode many years ago about counterfeit drugs sold by U.S. wholesalers to U.S. pharmacies. Also, do you remember the cancer medication that was diluted by a pharmacist in the U.S. to increase his already obscene profit margins?
Several Republican politicians and pharmaceutical companies raise this dire warning about the potential of counterfeit drugs from Canadian pharmacies, but, when asked to cite specific cases, they can't. Can you? If not, then where is it more dangerous to buy drugs?
threatening.
receptionist
Wood prices in general including softwood lumber, plywood, osb and other panel products have gone up since the start of the year for many reasons. One is that the exhange rate with the Canadian dollar has gone from $.60 to $.73 since the first of the year. This coupled with the counter-vailing duty has slowed the flow of lumber products into the US from Canada. The same is true for imported lumber form Europe where the Euro has strengthened from roughly par with the US dollar to about $1.13. Two, the southeast timber industry has experienced a very wet spring and summer which has affected log supply to certain mills. Third, is this summers fire season. Many mills in the Inland Rocky Mountains on both sides of the border have been shut out of the woods since mid July. In southern British Columbia this combination has forced many mills to shut down or curtail. The net effect is a dip in supply which may continue for some time. Sawmills in the inland northwest are now able to get back to logging now that we have had some rain and snow, but they will be playing catch-up in their log decks between now and breakup next Spring. As far as price fixing in the industry, I wish it were possible. I work for a sawmill in Northwest Montana. We sell all of our product to the wholesale market as do most other sawmills except for those that sell directly to the big box stores (i.e. the Borg). Our only control over the price of our final product is the ability to tell the wholesaler "NO" if we feel the price is too low and you can only do that for so long. There are some large national wholesale companies that try to influence the market by timing purchases and sales but the idea that the large "evil corporations" are gouging the markets does not hold water. I work for a small family owned sawmill so I have no affiliation to the larger "evil corporations". In fact it has been my experience that most big company sawmills usually kill any good market by dumping lumber at the end of every month to keep the cash flow numbers up and the quarterly stock prices propped up. If there has been any price gouging it has been at the retail level. The average WWPA framing lumber index (the price that mills receive for their lumber) has been hovering near 20 year lows for the last several years, yet I have not seen any such reduction in prices at the local lumber yards. My two cents worth.
Jeff Clausen
It apparently isn't because we don't have any more timber. The first few pics in this album show some excess on the way to Japan last month:
-Doug
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.