Roofing prices - WTF happened?

*sigh*
2 years ago I investigated a retile+celotex job for the bungalow, which is single storey, hipped (80m2 tiles) + 2 dormers (17m2 face tiles).
The quote was about 10k inc VAT. I stalled because I had no other pricing to go on to know if that was OK or not. And partly because the rep was not very convincing about how they handled rain showers. But they had done a decent loft conversion jobup the road.
The bloke I had who was supposed to start last week came in at 9k - but he was being cheap and not using scaffolding - possibly why his men walked - if that is really what happened...
After that, the best quote I've had to date is 16k (prob exVAT - not seen it in writing yet, just a quick phone call).
Others are 16-20k or more.
Materials I have estimated at around 5.3k inc VAT inc 900 quid for scaffold (asked a scaffolder).
That's coming in at 10k labour or £100/m2!!!
WTF is going on? I thought we were in a recession and work was scarce. I've simplified the job to full strip then roof tiles/flashing/celotex only - I refit the gutters and soffits later.
Never had an objection to a fair price for a fair days work - and I do have some appreciation of business overheads.
But 10k for 3 men for 2 weeks - that's an average of 1600 per man per week gross.
Are my expectations really that misaligned with reality???
Tim
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I think all the Poles went back to Poland for three months so they can reclaim tax paid in the UK so try again next year.
Brian
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Brian Gaff wrote:

Hi Brian,
Do you think that is the reason? I did not know about that tax move.
It's not a problem waiting. We're not going to start until after Xmax anyway.
Seriously - I'd be quite happy with a couple of Polish blokes given the amount of piss taking going on here...
Cheers
Tim
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And I don't think that there is one.
HMRC won't usually process a tax refund before the year end unless they are sure that you are not returning, and not always then.
Though if you are on continuous PAYE with the same employer and taking a short break that will generate a refund automatically, but that will happen at any point in the year. But I doubt many Polish builders are on kept on PAYE whilst they go back home for 3 months.
The only significance I can see with the timing is that Poland probably runs a tax year that runs Jan-Dec and taking a break at this point might allow them to take advantage of some double taxation relief back home, but that will be on their Polish income not the UK income.
tim
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Now that is confusing. I need a lie down.
Brian
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Well it was something mentioned on a phone in on a bbc station a few months ago, I guess to find out you need to talk to some poles. Often such things do get exagerated by the telling,. Brian
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Brian Gaff wrote:

On an aside, how does one locate decent Polish blokes?
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Tim Watts wrote:

Talk Cobblers, Get Polish. :-)

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Ask in your local Polish Supermarket
tim
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tim..... wrote:

Good idea - we're not noted for polish supermarkets, but I'm sure there'll be one in Hastings or Brighton somewhere...
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On 03/10/2012 18:34, Tim Watts wrote:

There is one near Seven Dials.
Colin Bignell
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On 03/10/2012 16:28, Tim Watts wrote:

This costing for self-builders on a 227m^2 house may be of help. Note, however, the £14,838.39 for roofing (third table) is new build cost, where there is no need to remove the old roof and dispose of the rubbish and there is no mention of scaffolding.
http://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/costs/roof

I, in a small way, supply the building trade and I have had a noticeable increase in orders over the past couple of months.
Colin Bignell
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Hi,
Interesting observations...
Nightjar wrote:

I assume that is including the structure rather than just re-skinning?
If so, the cost of stripping ought to be a lot lower than building the timbre structures - even with factory built trusses.

Is this a seasonal thing or has business been reasonably constant until recently?
I wish I had enough knowledge of the fiddly bits like section to section joints and ridges and flashing to direct 3 labourers to do most of the work, doing the fiddly bits myself.
But I do not sadly. At 100/day/man that would come in at 3k.
I've worked like that once with one labourer and it went very well...
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On 03/10/2012 18:44, Tim Watts wrote:

...
The business is quite seasonal, but that should have seen orders dropping off around now, not growing. It will be a while before I can be sure whether it is the start of a trend or simply something like a lot of projects having been delayed by the wet weather earlier in the year.
Colin Bignell
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On 03/10/2012 18:36, Nightjar wrote:

Or could it be with all the high winds they have plenty of work so inflate the prices.
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ss wrote:

That - and the rain - did pass my mind... I did not expect pricing to swing in such a short term.
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Could you get quotes with you providing all the materials and scaffold? Scaffold price seems on the low side by comparison to the other items.
I've had roofs re-done and it doesn't take 2 weeks! Day one: Flood job with labour to strip roof. Felt and batten. Maximum grunt, minimal skill. Day two: Still loads of labour on site to retile. Just grunt. Day three to five: Reduced labour, ridges, hips and flashing. Mostly skill.
mark
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mark wrote:

It's a theory - I could source all the materials at sane prices.
I assumed no roofer would wnat to touch this though as they are not in control of the process - and I cannot possibly know to supply every last component.

These all seem to be based on 2-3 roofers working at a steady pace - rather than throwing labourers at it. I agree that would make sense.
Mine's a little more complicated as celotex is to be fitted between rafters and made draught proof for the lower metre or so.
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On 03/10/2012 21:27, Tim Watts wrote:

and they won't make the profit on the difference between the list price they show on their invoice and the discounted price they actually buy it at.

Only if you have a virtually unlimited supply of casual labourers you can bring in if and when needed.
Colin Bignell
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