Is it because of the dollar being devalued? When the dollar goes up again will they lower their prices? I think they are shooting their self in the foot. Their previous prices is what made them so popular. If their prices are the same or higher than Delta's, etc., I myself would prefer to buy strictly American unless, they out source to China.
Ether way a more popular brand is most likely a better way to go. I thought about it for a long time before I bought my Jet 6" jointer. Now I see Griz's 6" heaby duty jointer, with hand wheels, is more money after freight then my Jet was 6 or so months ago. But now I see Jet apparently has raised their price too as it is about 10% higher so they all may be raising prices. If resale value is a concern, my bet is Jet, Delta, or Powermatic will resell at a better price than Grizzly. Greg
The dollar is probably making it worse, but the raise in the cost of steel, earlier this year, was what caused the initial problem. They published a warning during early to mid summer that prices would raise at years end. You have to give them credit for providing ample warning. My son is a heavy construction manager and the rise in steel prices was driving their estimators nuts during the first two quarters of the year.
As far hurting them - I doubt it. The others are going up too and the margin will probably stay the same. I bought a Grizzly 1442 about 14 months ago for $799. I saw it in the same store, during a show/sale, in October and it was $915. The Jet rep blamed it on steel.
Steel, dollar probably doesn't matter they still have to make a profit and I credit Griz with issuing the warning.
Yeah, except some of the Delta stuff I have seen lately has made it a tough decision. I have lost all hope of classic American quality being what it once was. It seems like there has been some kind of shift in the last couple of decades - big corporations seem to have short-term profit in mind rather than long-term customer loyalty.
A friend of mine asked me a while back "why is everything turning to crap?"
A good question. I never thought I would see the day when I *had* to buy a $250 mixer for my wife - just to keep from buying a $20 mixer every 6 months.
I think I am turning into a geezer...
~Pike~
For the most part, I agree with you. However, notice that some Grizzly tools sell for more than the comparable popular brand. The following examples use Amazon's free shipping vs. Grizzly's published shipping charges.
Exhibit A: Grizzly makes an 8" jointer that is comparable to Delta's
8" "Professional" jointer, with the Grizz selling for a bit less.Exhibit B: The Grizzly 8" jointer that has parallelogram tables, and is actually comparable to a DJ-20 sells for MORE than the X-5 DJ-20.
Once you get into Grizzly's "Industrial" line, you're in a completely different realm, and I don't think resale value would suffer. Grizz's "Woodshop News" ads usually show these tools. For 10" tablesaws, smaller band saws, etc... I think Grizzly does not carry the same resale percentage as the old line brands, regardless of what anyone here thinks of quality.
Our local ad rag, which covers Southeastern NY, Long Island, CT, MA, and RI, (East Westchester County to you, Charlie ) had an 8 month old 3HP 1023 SL, with a _sliding table_ for $600 listed for months. $700 Unisaws and JTAS-10s, without accessories, get sold in hours in this paper. I sold my 6 year old Jet contractor's saw there for almost $400! This newspaper and it's web counterpart cover an area of
12-15 million people, and an awful lot of wooddorkers.This very well may be a local thing, as this is area was the home of Woodworker's Warehouse. A few years back, WW had a house brand known as Reliant. Reliant went belly up, and left some folks without spare parts. I'm sure Grizzly is in a much better place than Reliant, but to those outside the 'wreck, Grizz is still an "off" brand.
Check out the only Grizzly tool currently listed from:
"JOINTER, 6", Grizzly, w/steel stand, cutting width 0-6", fence angles from
0-90 deg, good cond, $125. (203) 254-0164 . Fairfield "$125?
Here's the rest of the jointers: " JOINTER, 4", Craftsman, table top model, $60. (860) 557-1638. East Hartford JOINTER, 6'', Delta, w/steel stand, $200, Walker Turner, 6'' jointer, on cast iron stand, $285, 8'' Craftsman planer/molder thickness planer w/power feed & steel stand, $225. (203) 938-9502 . Redding JOINTER, 6", Grizzly, w/steel stand, cutting width 0-6", fence angles from
0-90 deg, good cond, $125. (203) 254-0164 . Fairfield JOINTER, 4", Craftsman, with belt driven motor, table. (203) 931-1711 Lou. West Haven JOINTER/PLANER, 4'', $100. (860) 349-9207. Durham WOOD JOINTER, Rockwell, 6"x42", cast iron, w/cast iron stand, 220 volts, single phase, excellent condition & blades, $400. (516) 795-7151 . Massapequa "Barry
I hear you. I started my search for a cabinet saw three years ago with fond memory of the Unisaws I used in the 60's through the early 80's. When I started seeing what it had become since then, I bought a Grizzly 1023s - better value and better looking.
I think "American Quality" is becoming the stuff you buy here under American brand names with offshore parts and/or assembly. The eastern manufacturers are starting to kick our butts just like the Japaneese automakers did 30 years ago. Hopefully it will have the same effect and the local manufacturers will wake up and start providing quality again.
RonB
I wonder how long it takes to sell it! If I had seen it in my area for that price I would have grabbed it without even argueing the price. Before I bought my Jet I watched adds for a couple of years. Any reputable brand asking price was almost new price. In fact I just saw a Jet 6" advertised in the local rag for $500. It was only listed for a couple of days so my bet is it is gone. I see Sears/Craftsman jointers like this one
The 1023 SL with sliding table is(was) in the range $1100, the Unisaw in the range of $1800, and the JTAS-10s in the range of $1400. Based on these numbers, it appears to me that the best buy percentage-wise is the Unisaw and the worst is the Grizzly.
The explanation is steel prices and a few other reasons. Griz and others have been saying they'll be raising prices. At least they were up front about it and gave us plenty of time to buy at the lower costs.
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 22:29:45 GMT, "Bob" calmly ranted:
The price of scrap steel has doubled recently. Watch for prices to go up on other things, too. The Chinese are buying every piece of scrap they can get their hands on, hence the scarcity, though it usually ends up back here anyway.
-- Save the Endangered ROAD NARROWS! -|-
They sell us trash and be sell them back trash, that's fair? Or, trash in trash out? :-)
Happy New Year everyone, it's not the end of the world trading trashes.
Sounds like eBay writ large...
Our dollar is losing value. Our government is spending a million dollars every 7-1/2 minutes for some kind of a war. Eventually they will print more money in attempt to get out of debt. Recently I traded a hand saw made in China for one made in the USA of equal dollar, but the USA saw is much better.
I'm sure they thought long and hard about it. Increases in shipping costs, steel, plastics, have all gone up considerably. In my business, we are paying 40% more for raw material in December than we did in May. We raised prices to cover it but some customer refused to pay any increase. We said goodbye; we don't work for free or at a loss. These customers went to one of our competitors that did not raise prices figuring to cash in and get market share. . That company no longer exists as of early December.
We are a small company. When we open for business on Monday, material cost aside, our cost of operation will be $225,000 more than last year to make the same amount of product. Fuel, insurance, rent. (no wage increases included) Grizzly is probably faced with a similar situation so no, they are not shooting themselves in the foot; they are planning to survive. They must make money or die. Delta and Jet will probably be doing the same.
You know what's really funny?
That jointer is located in the land of the $4-500,000 starter home with $100,000 of cars in the driveway, Fairfield County, CT. So was the $600 8 month old 1023SL w/ sliding table.
If you drew a "C" on a map from Bridgeport, CT, down I-95 to NYC, arcing back out onto Long Island, the "C" could stand for ca$h. I know cabinetmakers who routinely drive 2-3 hours one way, because there are plenty of ultra high-end jobs inside that same "C".
Barry
We actually have local dealers here in East Westchester County who sell Uni's in the $1650 range. The smaller, local guys, will match Tool Crib, as did Wooddorker's Warehouse. Only Woodcraft dosen't do local to web price matching.
Barry
Grizzly also seems to be getting more popular. Most businesses will attempt to price to what the market will bear.
Barry
The overriding question I keep asking myself the past few years:
Are things really getting worse, or is it just this old fart stage of life?
Despite the fact that here in Houston it cost me approximately 52% more in material costs to "dry in" the same size house in 2004 than it did in 2002, there is NO inflation, doncha know.
And the collective "tax spenders" love it ... it cost's more to build a house, therefore the house costs more, therefore it can be appraised at a higher valuation by an authority cleverly NOT beholden to the voter/tax payer, thereby increasing the tax "ba$e" for perks, boondoggles and self perpetuation of the "tax spenders" of a all stripes.
Example abound of just how collectively stupid/naive the populace, and how twisted the economic thinking, have become:
A couple of months back there was an article in the local paper with the headlines" "Windfall for Tax Payers".
The gist of the article was that due to higher real estate property valuations in our 'city of homes', there was going to be vastly more money in the city coffers in 2005.
Think about that for a few seconds (or minutes if you suffer from a state-of-the-art education).
Shirley, I am thinking, this is a tongue-in-cheek joke and the punch line is soon to follow, right? I mean, "Windfall for Taxpayers"??
Hell NO ... "they" (the author, and interviewed bureaucrats) were serious and presented the article with a straight face, apparently blissfully unaware of just where/who the hell that "windfall" revenue was coming!
And, although it was not apparent for a while, it is getting difficult to NOT notice that where prices have actually been maintained, quality has declined substantially.
We are apparently thought too stupid to notice that maintaining low inflation, as an economic index, ultimately equals lower quality goods?
Again, examples abound: The t-shirts at Sam's are the same $5 price they were in 2002, but instead of the generous use of "heavyweight cotton" of two years ago, the material is thin and decidedly less generous for the same sized product. (Anyone remember the "victory cigarettes" in G. Orwell's "1984", or is that tome too possibly damaging to self-esteem for current educational purposes?)
And just how will all these laid off folks be able to support $13/lb steak prices? And do you REALLY believe that China produces the same quality goods as Europe and the US have for decades? And has "reality TV" already replaced "religion" as the "opium of the people", as you watched?
But I digress ... back to the original question?
A while back, I heard a radio report where the report questioned employees of a Carolina textile plant buying Chinese made clothing in the hometown Wal-Mart. Apparently, "Buy American" means you should buy MY stuff, while I'll buy the cheapest crap I can, and not talk about YOUR job going away. But when MY job goes to China, I'll cry on the TV news that Wal-Mart ran my factory out of bidnet.
Support your neighbor for real, or sooner or later, the hypocrisy is going to drag us all down a hole.
Barry
I agree. While Amazon has some amazing deals, I feel it is only because they still have some competition. Their free shipping and discount pricing is very attractive, but what happens when all of the little guys are driven out of business? I used to subscribe to Fine Woodworking and a couple of the other WW mags. There used to be full page ads for tools from at least a dozen sellers. I picked up a copy recently and there were no such ads. Amazon either killed or bought the competition. We are circling the drain as a country that used to lead the world in competition, quality and innovation. max
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