Is it because of the dollar being devalued? When the dollar goes up again
will they lower their prices? I think they are shooting their self in the
foot. Their previous prices is what made them so popular. If their prices
are the same or higher than Delta's, etc., I myself would prefer to buy
strictly American unless, they out source to China.
Ether way a more popular brand is most likely a better way to go.
I thought about it for a long time before I bought my Jet 6" jointer. Now I
see Griz's 6" heaby duty jointer, with hand wheels, is more money after
freight then my Jet was 6 or so months ago. But now I see Jet apparently has
raised their price too as it is about 10% higher so they all may be raising
If resale value is a concern, my bet is Jet, Delta, or Powermatic will
resell at a better price than Grizzly.
For the most part, I agree with you. However, notice that some
Grizzly tools sell for more than the comparable popular brand. The
following examples use Amazon's free shipping vs. Grizzly's published
Exhibit A: Grizzly makes an 8" jointer that is comparable to Delta's
8" "Professional" jointer, with the Grizz selling for a bit less.
Exhibit B: The Grizzly 8" jointer that has parallelogram tables, and
is actually comparable to a DJ-20 sells for MORE than the X-5 DJ-20.
Once you get into Grizzly's "Industrial" line, you're in a completely
different realm, and I don't think resale value would suffer. Grizz's
"Woodshop News" ads usually show these tools. For 10" tablesaws,
smaller band saws, etc... I think Grizzly does not carry the same
resale percentage as the old line brands, regardless of what anyone
here thinks of quality.
Our local ad rag, which covers Southeastern NY, Long Island, CT, MA,
and RI, (East Westchester County to you, Charlie <G>) had an 8 month
old 3HP 1023 SL, with a _sliding table_ for $600 listed for months.
$700 Unisaws and JTAS-10s, without accessories, get sold in hours in
this paper. I sold my 6 year old Jet contractor's saw there for
almost $400! This newspaper and it's web counterpart cover an area of
12-15 million people, and an awful lot of wooddorkers.
This very well may be a local thing, as this is area was the home of
Woodworker's Warehouse. A few years back, WW had a house brand known
as Reliant. Reliant went belly up, and left some folks without spare
parts. I'm sure Grizzly is in a much better place than Reliant, but
to those outside the 'wreck, Grizz is still an "off" brand.
Check out the only Grizzly tool currently listed from:
6", Grizzly, w/steel stand, cutting width 0-6", fence angles from
0-90 deg, good cond, $125. (203) 254-0164 . Fairfield "
Here's the rest of the jointers:
4", Craftsman, table top model, $60. (860) 557-1638. East Hartford
6'', Delta, w/steel stand, $200, Walker Turner, 6'' jointer, on cast
iron stand, $285, 8'' Craftsman planer/molder thickness planer w/power
feed & steel stand, $225. (203) 938-9502 . Redding
6", Grizzly, w/steel stand, cutting width 0-6", fence angles from
0-90 deg, good cond, $125. (203) 254-0164 . Fairfield
4", Craftsman, with belt driven motor, table. (203) 931-1711 Lou.
4'', $100. (860) 349-9207. Durham
Rockwell, 6"x42", cast iron, w/cast iron stand, 220 volts, single
phase, excellent condition & blades, $400. (516) 795-7151 . Massapequa
I wonder how long it takes to sell it! If I had seen it in my area for that
price I would have grabbed it without even argueing the price.
Before I bought my Jet I watched adds for a couple of years. Any reputable
brand asking price was almost new price. In fact I just saw a Jet 6"
advertised in the local rag for $500. It was only listed for a couple of
days so my bet is it is gone. I see Sears/Craftsman jointers like this one
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id 54 for sale for $200 often!
They are garbage as far as I am concerned.
One day I told my wife that if I died to watch what she sells my tools for!
I said to get a tool catalog and ask 80% of new price!
You know what's really funny?
That jointer is located in the land of the $4-500,000 starter home
with $100,000 of cars in the driveway, Fairfield County, CT. So was
the $600 8 month old 1023SL w/ sliding table.
If you drew a "C" on a map from Bridgeport, CT, down I-95 to NYC,
arcing back out onto Long Island, the "C" could stand for ca$h. I
know cabinetmakers who routinely drive 2-3 hours one way, because
there are plenty of ultra high-end jobs inside that same "C".
The 1023 SL with sliding table is(was) in the range $1100,
the Unisaw in the range of $1800, and the JTAS-10s in
the range of $1400. Based on these numbers, it appears to
me that the best buy percentage-wise is the Unisaw and
the worst is the Grizzly.
We actually have local dealers here in East Westchester County who
sell Uni's in the $1650 range. The smaller, local guys, will match
Tool Crib, as did Wooddorker's Warehouse. Only Woodcraft dosen't do
local to web price matching.
I'll have to take a ride over the next time I "go home"
(Dobbs Ferry). I looked up woodworking places in
the phone book last timeI was there, but didn't have
the time to visit any of them.
But back to the subject, that still makes the Unisaw the
only one of the 3 selling for less than half of list price.
These are listings, not actual sale prices. The Unisaws sell in
hours, maybe the owners should ask more. The 1023 was listed for
months, I have no idea what the eventual selling price was.
My $400 Jet CS went in about an hour after listing it in the same web
/ paper ads. More calls were continually coming in as I helped the
guy load it up.
My original observation is that people would quickly line up to pay
$400 for a 6 year old Jet CS with stamped wings, yet nobody was
touching an 8 month old 1023SL, with sliding table, for $600.
If I didn't have a cabinet saw, I would have certainly investigated
the $600 Grizzly.
The dollar is probably making it worse, but the raise in the cost of steel,
earlier this year, was what caused the initial problem. They published a
warning during early to mid summer that prices would raise at years end.
You have to give them credit for providing ample warning. My son is a heavy
construction manager and the rise in steel prices was driving their
estimators nuts during the first two quarters of the year.
As far hurting them - I doubt it. The others are going up too and the
margin will probably stay the same. I bought a Grizzly 1442 about 14 months
ago for $799. I saw it in the same store, during a show/sale, in October
and it was $915. The Jet rep blamed it on steel.
Steel, dollar probably doesn't matter they still have to make a profit and I
credit Griz with issuing the warning.
Yeah, except some of the Delta stuff I have seen lately has made it
a tough decision. I have lost all hope of classic American quality
being what it once was. It seems like there has been some kind of
shift in the last couple of decades - big corporations seem to
have short-term profit in mind rather than long-term customer loyalty.
A friend of mine asked me a while back "why is everything turning
A good question. I never thought I would see the day when I *had*
to buy a $250 mixer for my wife - just to keep from buying a $20
mixer every 6 months.
I think I am turning into a geezer...
I hear you. I started my search for a cabinet saw three years ago with fond
memory of the Unisaws I used in the 60's through the early 80's. When I
started seeing what it had become since then, I bought a Grizzly 1023s -
better value and better looking.
I think "American Quality" is becoming the stuff you buy here under American
brand names with offshore parts and/or assembly. The eastern manufacturers
are starting to kick our butts just like the Japaneese automakers did 30
years ago. Hopefully it will have the same effect and the local
manufacturers will wake up and start providing quality again.
The explanation is steel prices and a few other reasons. Griz and others
have been saying they'll be raising prices. At least they were up front
about it and gave us plenty of time to buy at the lower costs.
The price of scrap steel has doubled recently. Watch for prices to go
up on other things, too. The Chinese are buying every piece of scrap
they can get their hands on, hence the scarcity, though it usually
ends up back here anyway.
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