But adding too much water, especially with a tight-grain wood like maple,
causes the glue to foam into nothingness and never get into the pores. If
the wood has 7-8% moisture content I've never had to add moisture and it has
always held fine for me even in some very difficult situations.
It said to on the bottle?
The first joints I made were dry and they snapped clean too. (edge to edge) I
haven't seen any wood damage in any of the failed joints. So much for "the
joint is stronger than the wood".
BTW my white glue experiment came out exactly the same. Is this just a hard
I have some failed side to side failures you can look at too. That was what
The "end grain" is in a mortise that is actually 3/8" deep" (I said 1/4
These are typical joints I see everywhere.
I am about to shoot some stainless screws into these joints to save my $60 glue
So far the glue up is holding but the cut off pieces will easily fail
BTW this is Gorrila Glue's answer
"From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Judy Tracy)
As far as we know, that wasn't a bad lot, but other than sending you another
bottle to try it again, I can't be of any more help. Most of the time the
glue fails, it has to do with moisture.
email@example.comGreg (Gfretwell) wrote in message
I think there may be a couple things going on here. First, an end
grain joint is inherently weak. I know, I know, one side is edge
grain, but a joint hath two sides, and is only as strong as its
weakest component. Second, and this is speculative because I obviously
didn't see you glue the joint, it sounds like, perhaps because of your
prior troubles, you may have used TOO much water. As others have
indicated, PU works best in the presence of MOISTURE. I've seen people
really dousing the wood prior to using this stuff (again, I'm not
saying YOU did this). Just a very light misting of water from a spray
bottle is MORE than enough.
For an end grain joint like this, I would use epoxy. Or some
firstname.lastname@example.orgGreg (Gfretwell) wrote in message
One other thing: If it's hard maple, my experience with that wood has
been that, particularly when it's sanded, it can become almost
"burnished" so that it does not absorb stain, for example, easily.
I'm wondering whether whatever quality that causes that also affects
Sounds like operator error...;~) But I cannot imagine that happening 2
times in a row. Probably bad or old product. I use the stuff and it works
great. Things to keep in mind.
DO NOT over tighten your clamps. Always add water to the mating side. Be
certain that your surfaces are as flat as you can possibly make them.
Again, your glue must be bad for it to fail so miserably.
Don't like poly glue much but do have uses for it once and awhile. Never had
a problem with it's strength myself. But then I just dampen one side of the
joint and only apply glue to the other side. I believe that is what the
directions on the container calls for and it works pretty well for me.
"...for hardwoods like oak or maple lightly dampen both surfaces"
The first time (edge to edge joint) I wiped them with a damp rag. The joint I
pictured was misted with a spray a bottle.
Everything was cured overnight.
The only things common are the wood itself and the glue. I have a dialog going
Today I am going to glue up some other types of wood with this same glue.
Someone here mentioned a possibility-that the end grain absorbed the
glue. I haven't run into that before but the picture did look as
though the end grain was mighty porous.
On 21 Aug 2003 16:01:32 GMT, email@example.comGreg (Gfretwell) wrote:
I've been using Poly glues for a while. Just started using Gorilla glue. I
use a spray bottle of water to wet one side of the joint, apply the glue,
and clamp it for a few hours. When I take the clamps off, it holds very
tight. After letting it set overnight for a full cure, I finish my
projects. Having used this product only last week, I'd say your results are
very uncommon. Yes, end grain to long grain makes for a weak joint, but
this glue should have held tight enough for the poly joint to "tear". This
stuff sticks to just about anything. For it to not stick at all makes me
think you've got an outdated product or there's some other factor (lots of
sawdust in the joint maybe). Don't know, I wasn't there. I can tell you
only that Poly glues typically work very well, which is why many of us use
Here is what I have found. About a year ago a friend of mine and I --
both longtime engineers -- made a test. We both had our opinions. He
liked Gorilla glue, I liked good old yellow PVA woodworker's glue.
We set up identical tests and tested the strength. We both found that
they both had, if properly applied, nearly the same strength. We
found that the PVA was slightly stronger in our tests. And the
strength variations due to application were greater with the Gorilla
Glue. The difference was not enough to be statistically significant.
The conclusion I have come to is:
PVA is the best for normal woodworking projects that do not need
waterproof service. PVA is more forgiving in application (there is no
special surface wetting and other concerns). Polyurethane (Gorilla
Glue) can be used to attach materials that PVA cannot (metal, plastic,
mirrors, etc). Polyurethane is better than even the type II PVA for
wet applications. Gorilla Glue does not fill gaps (with any
strength). Gorilla Glue is very, very messy and you absolutely need
gloves or you will be wearing the stuff for days on your hands until
the skin it is on wears off. Like most adhesives, they each have
their place, but I think the PVA is much easier to work with and
forgiving as long as you are working within its service parameters.
I ask because I don't know.
At this point I am wondering wheter the best answer might be to ignore the
common wisdom of having well manicured surfaces and to scuff up the wood with a
chipped tooth table saw blade where it mates. (and I just threw one of those
I've used GG for a number of outdoor applications and have had no problem.
Remember that per the instructions, apply the glue lightly to one of the two
surfaces and apply water lightly to the other. The glue draws its moisture
from that water, and will expand to about 4x its original volume. Then clamp
tightly for 1-4 hours. The end grain to end grain joint isn't very strong,
but it should have held better than what you've described if the glue was
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