OK at 13:30 EDT the race started. I glued up a 90 degree face to face joint (cross) using 2 glues in 3 conditions Rough sawn hard maple face (each side) Milled hard maple ... Rough sawn western red cedar ...
Yellow interior carpenter glue Gorilla glue All clamped up
at 13:30 tomorrow I will try to break them all Who wants which in the pool? Sort of makes me want to go rent a recording strain guage. ;-)
If you can, please post pictures on ABPW.
WoodChuck
Gfretwell wrote, wondering if this is really what he meant?
I'll take the Gorilla Glue! But I would have wondered how that heated epoxy gun system would have faired?
Rich
If you are gluing them cross grain they all will eventually fail as each board swells or contracts with climate changes. For the time being, they all should be strong. Probably the milled maple will be the best scenario.
I use Gorilla glue often when the project will be subjected to a lot of water or will be used out side. Titebond II is "WeatherProof" but not Water Proof. Gorilla glue is Water Proof.
These glue joints are only going to last 24 hours and however minutes it takes me to break them. I am still waiting to see some wood damage, where the joint was truly stronger than the wood. My guess is that the western red cedar is going to be the one that presents that scenario. (torn wood) My bet is the sawn surface will hold better than the milled one, simply because there is more surface area on a microscopic scale.
If I may go off on a slightly different track, this reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask here for a long time.
For the strongest glue joint, is it better to have the surface rough or smooth? I've always assumed a rough one (within reason) would be better, as Greg suggests. But several sources I've seen state quite emphatically that "smoother is better".
Any comments?
Harry
Milled hard maple and yellow carpenter glue!
IMHO as smooth as "WE" are capable of making is probably not too smooth. Non-porous or too porous is the problem. IMHO "flat and smooth" is the desired objective.
On Thu 21 Aug 2003 05:30:51p, "Leon" wrote in news:vKb1b.2222$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com:
Now here's where my lack of knowledge about glues is showing. Besides the waterproof part, I thought one of the differences between Poly and PVA - I
*think* that's the two categories we're talking about here - was setup time. I was hoping to see someone post about using Gorilla glue when it was a complicated glue-up and it gave them more time to get all the joints in place. I can't remember what David Marks uses when he wants a longer setup time, but I think it was dark.Dan
or oily woods. it really does well there. or if you get glue creep. need long open times. though yellow glue for most gluing is a better choice.
I've got my own test going now. I built some planters and benches in western red cedar three years ago. About half the joints with yellow glue (tightbond 2), the other half with gorilla glue. The finish on the planters is white latex paint, the benches are finished with Sikkens Cetol 1
After two winters and lots of weathering, I see no sign of joint failure anywhere.
Not quite. Whether or not you need penetration depends on the surface energy in the bonding materials. High surface energy means lots of strength in the bond. Low energy means less strength. If you want to glue with a weak bond, then you want to increase the surface area - rough and porous is good. If the bond is strong, then you can use less area and a smooth surface suffices.
Glues like polyurethanes make things interesting since they are strong as long as they don't foam. Hence, expanding into an open area doesn't buy you enything and roughness doesn't work as well. Epoxies, OTOH, are strong and will do a good job at filling up spaces. Cyanoacrylates don't do a good job at filling up spaces but are really good at bonding smooth surfaces.
The surface preparation depends on the material, the glue and the desired strength. I get the best results when I read the label on the glue and follow the instructions.
Mike
I didn't say it before but my moistening regimen for the test was spray with a spray bottle and wipe off the excess with a lint free cloth.
Dan,
Dunno what Mr. Marks uses, but traditionally you'd use hide glue. Titebond makes one. I know there's also a more modern alternative. While looking for it, I found this interesting chart comparing the properties of various glues:
When I do outside repairs to my house, I like to use Gorilla glue for the joints. The foaming action helps to completely seal the joint and keep the moisture out that eventually causes rot .
How 'bout epoxy?
Built some planters many years ago (~15) outta pine. Used epoxy; painted them with latex (I think) paint. Even epoxied little daisies on the fronts. Still lookin' good and holding together.
Renata
snipped-for-privacy@aol.comGreg (Gfretwell) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m05.aol.com:
Haven't seen the answer posted yet, so I'm going to bet on yellow glue as the stronger on the milled wood, and gorilla on the rough-sawn woods (since it's got some gap-filling abilities). Overall I bet for the milled maple/yellow glue combination as the strongest.
John
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