Why are RAS so unpopular?

[Toller]

98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut TS sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would be nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it won't be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

[David]

It's only a matter of time before Rumpty weighs in with the reasons why a RAS is THE tool to own. From what I've heard, a 2 year old Craftsman would be one of the worst choice in RAS you could make. That's not MY opinion, as I've never owned one, but I've read plenty about them and it ain't pretty. :)

Dave

[Toller]

Where have you read this? Comments here over the years, or in something "meaningful"? The 20 year old ones are a lot cheaper, but they are probably worn.

[James "Cubby" Culbertson]

Being an actual owner of a RAS for the past 20 years or so, I find it to be very useful. I will admit it takes a tune up every so often and probably more often than many of my other tools (TS for example) but it's really quite easy to set up. I use it all the time to rough cut my wood. I've ripped on it a few times but since I've gotten my TS, I do that operation there now. I can't really talk to the recent craftsman's but mine (20 years old +) is just getting broken in. Before discounting the old ones, check to see if they are truly worn. How? I'm not quite sure as I haven't had to look into purchasing used but there are many here that can tell you what to look for. Personally, I'd run it through all of it's motions looking for any excessive play and go from there. Good Luck, Cheers, cc

[Charlie Self]

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy. You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.

[Lee Michaels]

"Charlie Self" wrote

I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are going to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect for tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work in insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have all fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with them too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.

I don't know when the exact point was that this saw fell into disfavor. But I woke one day to discover a tool I grew up with has now become the great satan. Probably about the same time that good old US of A became a land of wimps and whiners.

[the_tool_man]

Hi Toller:

I've had a RAS for about 3 years. I, too, bought a 2-year-old Craftsman that had hardly been used. I tuned it up and put a new table on it, and it works quite well. I have found, however, that its biggest weakness is the repeatability of the 90 degree stop. If you leave it locked at 90 degrees, it stays there, but if you move it, it comes back to some random angle between 89 and 91 degrees. What I tend to do for mitered cuts is leave it at 90 degrees, and devise an angled guide block to present the work to the blade at the appropriate angle.

Regards, John.

[Mike Myers]

directions.

I have had a RAS since the early 70's and consider it an essential part of my shop. It is set up along a wall where it is more or less built into a long work bench. It is used mostly for rough cross cutting but I do use it for dados and mouldings from time to time. If your cut needs to be perfect then you must check the saw for square before using it. When it is not in use I just push the arm out of the way and I have more work bench to use. Like any other tool they can be dangerous if your not careful. Get the right blade for this saw. A zero or negative hook angle blade will work best. A positive hook angle blade will try to climb up and across your board. Pretty scary the first time it happens.

Mike

[George]

Has a couple extra gotchas up its sleeve as well. In shops which do not practice proper cleaning - other people's - sawdust or the odd chip can accumulate, kicking one end out from the fence, resulting in a less-than perfect cut. Gotta keep the table and fence swept, because they don't show the dust like iron tops on tablesaws.

The other thing is the self-feeding feature you can get with some blades, which makes it sooo important to have good hand control and positioning. My Monkey Wards saw has a trigger switch, so both hands are where they will be for the cut when the power comes on. Reaching up with one hand to turn the tool on makes me nervous about the other....

[krg]

directions.

I have a Delta 10" in the corner of my shop and I can't remember the last time I used it. There really is not anything it can do that can't be done on either my Unisaw or 12" compound miter saw. It is very dangerous to rip wood with it. Get a good table saw and a compound miter saw first, then you can get a Radial Arm Saw to set in the corner and take up room.

Anyone want to buy a Delta 10" Radial Arm Saw used very little?

Kevin

[Amused]

A RAS has it's uses, and in it's time, solved a good many problems, however a good miter saw is cheaper and reduces RAS as the saw-of-choice by a significant amount. That, and learning to use routers to create dados in long boards.

I have a good (meaning old) Craftsman RAS and I haven't used it in months. Once, I made cutoff boards to use with my circular saws, (7.5"and 5" trim), the use of the RAS dropped to zero. Without any real in-depth thought, about the only thing that comes to mind where I'd revert to the RAS, is if I had the need to cut big, deep notches or cross dado's in some long deep boards.

I've been fussin' around now for two years over a dedicated mortiser. If I ever do get one, I'd guess that the RAS would be headed for the garage sale.

James....

Even rough-in carpenters will tend to bring their 12 miter saws to the job site, rather than RAS's. The 12" will handle the big stuff, (2x8's ????

2x10's???) and it's lighter, easier to move around and the set up tables designed for the big miters can have them up and running in a matter of minutes.

[Duane Bozarth]

Depending on the model, older ones are also quite possibly much more solidly built (but probably need to be more like 30 to 40 yr old rather than only 20 as by the 80s a lot of the cheapening of Craftsman was already well under way. I think a specific model number would be all important as there were so many different Craftsmans as well.

For the general question, a _quality_ RAS is fully capable of being set up and keeping its precision, but the inexpensive ones aren't that tool, whether Craftsman or B&D or whomever. I use the RAS as the rough cutoff tool when prepping material and the TS for final work of manageable size. If the piece is long enough to make the handling on the TS problematical, I then go either to the CMS or back to the RAS if the piece can't be handled on the CMS. But, in general, I keep a rough cut blade on the RAS so a final cut entails a fair amount of setup there before it can happen, thus ensuring I rarely use it for that purpose...

[Doug Miller]

That's probably due at least in part to a corner being the worst possible place in the shop to put a radial arm saw. They're *much* more useful in the middle of a long wall.

Put a dado six inches from the end of an eight-foot board?

No argument there...

Or get a good table saw and a compound miter saw first, then get a RAS to put in the middle of a long wall where it can actually be used... :-)

Maybe... what model, how old, how much you want, and where are ya?

[Charlie Self]

Or a group that took too much for granted too often, thus couldn't get the best out of the RAS, or a group that was in a big rush too often and couldn't get the best out of the RAS. I can't quite see where wimping and whining have much to do with it.

[ATP*]

How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long as I can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with manually operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99% of the time.

[Charlie Self]

As recently as 20 years ago, many job sites had an RAS there to do the cutting of heavier timbers, trim and similar parts. That particular tool use in my experience goes back into at least the middle '50s when I started bending nails. My brother, who contracted aluminum, and then vinyl, siding always preferred one on the site.

A bitch to tune up, yes. Go out of adjustment easily, yes. But, if you got good at it, fast to adjust back into tune, lighter than a good table saw, and more versatile in some ways (many 10" RAS models used to run router bits, some had flexible shafts, etc.). Even today, I think cutting dadoes is preferable on an RAS. Even grooving is somewhat easier, if you know what you're doing.

Circular saws came into common use with carpenters some time after WWII. The guy I started with wouldn't have them on the site, felt they were both inaccurate (those early ones were), and dangerous (and he was right again). Power miter boxes changed a lot of things, after the circular saw made the major changes in the early '50s. SCMS have changed a lot more things. But there is still much that an RAS will do that is more easily done than with any other power tool.

[dgadams]

Around here (Albuquerque) all the homes in my area were built with radial arm saws. The carpenters had a RAS built into the bed of their truck. Finish work is done with a chop saw.

D.G. Adams

[dgadams]

I had a RAS for about 18 years. It served me well. I only did cross cuts on it never ripping. It wore out and I replaced it with a sliding mitre saw. A RAS is a bit fussy and needs to be tuned like any tool, but can be made to work. One note, they need a lot of space. I had one wall in the garage set up with side tables to support stock. The slider I use now is on a rolling table with removable side support. It takes up a lot less room.

D.G. Adams

[ATP*]

I've used them for siding, although I haven't see too many other contractors in NY employ them in that manner.

[ATP*]

If they use them for framing they are wasting time. A chop saw or RAS may be useful for repetitive cuts on 2x4's or 2x6's, but cutting rafters, joists, etc. is most efficiently done on the stack. By the time you move the lumber into position on the saw a good framer would have it cut. I guess if you are employing semi-skilled labor to feed cut pieces to framers the economics of the situation might change.