Truck Rental

My experience is I spend a LOT LESS on maintenance and repairs on the newer 10 year old cars than I did on older 10 year old cars.

Electronic failures are extremely rare and most are connection problems which are no harder to FIX than on simpler cars. Just harder to find.

That may have been true in the past but the numbers have changed, particularly this year. Because of the cost of new vehicles and the demand of used, they really don't depreciate as they have. Trucks never have depreciated as fast as cars, which is why I've bought new trucks. The difference between new and three or four year old trucks, with the commensurate mileage just couldn't be justified.

Sure, buying used will be cheaper but, again, the numbers aren't as different as they once were. The price increases of new cars and Covid have really turned the car market upside-down.

Why doesn't it go into the retirement account?

Disagree. Cars are far more reliable today than they have been in the, even recent, past. They are expensive to be repaired (some

SHE wanted her window (motor) fixed, so we paid the $600 for it, in her

Haha, that Lebaron sounds like some of mine. I almost bought a Lebaron convertible once. I ended up buying a '97 Chrysler LHS from the same people instead for $500 circa 2017. It had the typical plague of failing electronical gizmos that were very high end when the car was new. After a few months and hundreds of dollars of repairs, I sold it to a neighbor, who drove it with bad plates for a few months until they were pulled over. Car was impounded, that was the end of it I suppose.

My first truck was an S10, a '97, purchased in 2016. The frame was patched, but it was *so* rusty, that when I finally scrapped it a year or two later, the guys at the yard tried to pick it up with a fork lift to stack on another vehicle, and it broke in half... both halves fell to the ground... it was amusing to watch, but I'm glad that didn't happen when driving it.

Several of your sources estimate that cars are averaging a 12 year life expectancy, and can go up to 200K miles. While it is true that 40 years ago, you should be lucky to expect 100K miles, I'm sure things have improved over the years. I've also saw one that cited issues with glitches in the "infotainment" system... I've noticed that in newer cars as well.

From my point, you've got to understand that the vehicles that I buy are vehicles that the author of these articles would have LONG since considered scrap. Many of my vehicles are over 200K miles, well over 25 years old, and have been patched and hacked back together. I live in Ohio with no inspections, and a no emissions county. If I lived in a state with annual inspection, the vast majority of my cars could not legally be driven.

See my response above to Clare about my '97 Chrysler LHS. To elaborate, the power window motors were failing as well as many other electronical systems that cannot easily be replaced. The digital climate control system was failing, and it would randomly kick on heat, full blast, middle of summer. None of the buttons would work. If violently punching it didn't shut it off (worked some times), you had to pull a fuse to stop it.

Cars of yesteryear without the electronic computers and all kinds of other gizmos had a lot less to fail, and were far easier to repair. Yes, cars might last longer in general now for the average joe, but look at an early 70's muscle car. It's easy to work on and keep on the road. Simple mechanical systems are easy to keep going for a mechanically minded person. When computers and chips fail, game over.

One of the things the articles cited with "cars lasting longer" would be more durable interiors. People like me really don't care that the seat is ripped up, carpet is ripped up, dashboard is cracked, interior rattles... whatever, it drives. Your average person won't deal with that and the car would be gone. More durable interiors are nice, but that's not a deal breaker to me.

That's very true. To each their own. Aside from saving money, I get a level of satisfaction out of keeping a car going long past the point that most people would say it's not worth keeping. I regularly get people that compliment my cars, which still shocks me. "Oh, wow, I haven't seen one of those in years, that's awesome!"

I would disagree to the extent that it depends on how mechanically minded you are, and the level of work you are willing to do yourself. If the person in question is the type to take their car to the shop for any kind of maintenance work, then yes, they are better off getting a new car than paying for repairs.

I do all of my own car work, and older cars have far more simple systems. You almost need a computer degree to work on late model cars now. It is no longer simple mechanical work... anything beyond mid

Your words, which you did not include in your response, were:

"That's the problem with so many newer vehicles... I've been saying this, with all of the electronics, they die more quickly, and you really can't repair most of that yourself."

While I will agree that repairs are no longer as DIY friendly, I don't see anything in your response that substantiates your claim that "with all of the electronics, they die more quickly"

Neither a glitchy infotainment system or a degraded interior constitute a death. In fact, many modern vehicles go so far as to protect themselves from "death" by employing a limp mode. Limiting RPM's, disabling all but the essential systems (e.g. no AC, no turbo, etc.) yet allowing the driver to drive the vehicle to safe location, even all the way to a repair facility.

Me too, but it's more "I haven't seen one like that in a long time - How do you keep it so nice?"

I can NOT STAND driving a "rusty" car. Or a damaged one - or an "unsafe" one. The LeBaron still LOOKED good. It looked good enough on a rainy night that I risked $1000 on a non-runner - and that's saying something!!. NONE of the electronic Gizmos gave me any trouble. I've had electrical issues on most of the FORDs I've owned - generally related to bad connections - other than my current Ranger (which has virtually NO factory installed electrical or electronic options) Power door locks/security systems have been the most problematic - issues on both the Mystique and the Taurus. Next most troublesome ere heater fan controls - same problem on 3 or 4 - connections on heater switch and/or motor speed control resistor - and wiring in the complex adjustable steering column - and the windsheild wiper control stalk - all well over 200000km and 15 years.

But those '70's muscle cars needed, and still need, a LOT of maintenance. When they say "they don't make 'em like they used to" I say "THANK GOD!!!!" Things like voltage regulators crapping out, electronic ignitions failing, lean burn computers and feedback carbs. Automatic transmission failures were COMMON and exhausts lasted 2 years. One hundred thousand miles without at least a valve job and / or timing chains were uncommon. Many engines needed complete overhauls before that magic 100000. I replaced MANY rear axle bearings and rebuilt many differentials. ALL things that are extremely rare on today's cars. It was not at all uncommon for brake systems to be leaking - master cyl and wheel cyl rebuilds (or replacements) were common as dirt.

You wouldn't catch me driving a car with a torn up interior back then

-and you still won't. Life is too short to drive JUNK. A man has to have SOME pride!!! I'm proud to drive what a lot of people would send to the junk yard due to age, mileage, or reputation - but BY JOVE - it WILL NOT look like JUNK. No holes / big dents. No ripped seats or sagging headliner - I'll rip the headliner out before I'll drive with it hanging around my ears - and no rusty steel rims without covers, or hanging exhaust.

I drove 2 "junky" cars when I was in Africa - but they were still better looking than many (1967 204 Peugeot with no paint on the meticulously straightend out collision damaged front end and 1949 VW painted Accacia Yellow with a paint brush with the front fenders "flared" with a hammer to clear the later model wheels/tires)

In cars newer than mid eighties I have not had to replace a "chip" component on ANY of my cars. A few solenoids and sensors, for sure - but never a "computer". I have also not had a power window or power lock actuater fail - I DID have an ABS controller fail on the Poncho - but even that was a mechanical, not electrical failure (a piston unthreaded off an actuator)

My ranger still looked REAL GOOD from 10 feet when I decided the box had to be repaired or replaced

One day was behind a Monte Carlo at a drive up, now this one had AUDIO (bass) system. Music going great, as it drove away from the drive up there was an outline of the perimeter of the car of rust.

FWIW, all the electrical stuff on my old-enough-to-drink Jeep works fine. The windows don't go up and down because the mechanical pieces have rusted away and the doors don't lock and unlock because a mechanical piece was apparently a press fit that eventually came unpressed, but the actuators work fine, except the driver-side door where the connector keeps coming unplugged.

Our retired Chief Actuary (don't know what he made but his replacement makes in the low 7 figures) drove a mostly-rust Subaru. I don't know how many mostly-rust Subarus he had had in his life, but the reason he bought the current one was that the previous one would no longer pass safety inspection due to rust.

I bought a new 1986 Subaru wagon about a year before my first kid was born. Whenever I installed the car seats, I always gave them a firm tug to make sure they were secure. One time I pull on the car seat and the seat belt anchor pulled right out of the wheel well. The hole that was left was the exact shape of the oval anchor plate that was on the exterior side of the wheel. Probably galvanic corrosion. One hard stop and that car seat would have gone flying.

We complained all the way up to the Subaru corporate offices and had the car inspected by a regional manager.

Him: "Sorry, your car is out of warranty and rust wouldn't have been covered anyway."

Me: "Are you serious? The seat belt system failed in under 40K miles. I thought Subarus were supposed to be safe cars."

Him: "The seatbelt didn't fail. The wheel well rusted out. Rust damage isn't coveredby any warranty."

Further complaints to Subaru corporate resulted in nothing more than "case closed" responses.

Years later, my daughter was looking for a car and looked at a bunch of used Subarus. On more than one of them, the brackets that held the seats to the floor were thick with rust. Front and rear. She was smart enough to notice the pattern and mentioned it to me. After I told her the story of her brother's car seat problem she never looked at another Subaru.

Do you open the hood and clean the engine compartment before you take a vehicle in for service? Open the doors and wipe down the inside of the pillars? Vacuum the leaves from those crevices next to the windshield wipers?

I do.

The interior gets vacuumed, windows get washed, etc.

I'm convinced that if the mechanic sees how much I care for my vehicles, regardless of age, then they will care just a little bit more while doing their work.

I keep my vehicles just about spotless anyway, but I make *sure* it's clean if someone else is going to see it.

My 1980 Mustang went through 3 ECMs. They were pretty cheap back then. The car would just shut off, even while driving at 65 MPH. No warning. All instruments would just go to zero and suddenly I'd just be coasting along.

Pop it into neutral, restart it and keep on driving. Order an ECM, replace it and it was good for another couple of years.

I came to that conclusion too... about 20 years ago. I had a Ford E250 van that suffered an electrical fire. When it came time to replace it I realized I didn't need really need a truck any more. I bought a car with the idea of getting a trailer but never got the trailer... I've rented trucks a few times and enlisted the help of truck owning friends a few times to move materials I couldn't handle alone. In most of those cases it was a medium duty truck... a run of the mill PU or Van lacked the payload capacity I needed or lacked a power tail gate.

On 6/21/2021 3:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...

I really doubt the extra makes any difference to them at all -- they're on a race against the clock in the standard time book.

If it's completely full of mud as ours often are (and always chocks of dust) from living on several miles of dirt roads, I'll try and find the time first to knock the worst off, but sometimes it'll just be picking up it all again on the way to town so there's little point.

I do keep the crap out of the intake wells, however -- the wife seems to have a penchant to park when in town under the maples or shedding pines.

...

I happened to be behind a guy in an almost new Taurus last Saturday at stoplight in town when it died on him -- it was 103 F, but the car wasn't hot; just dead. However, it started up and he drove off after got over his nerves and I got him to put it in neutral so it would crank; he was flustered from blocking traffic and I had tooted horn first before realizing he had vehicle trouble when didn't pick up when the light changed. :)

He was from the neighboring place 60 mi N; hope he made it home.

I had '69 Charger (383 4-bbl, not the hemi) that every so often on the highway every gauge would peg and the lights get really, really bright as the regulator would let a surge go...it never lasted more than just a second or so and would then be back to normal for hours or maybe days.

It did eventually develop a bare spot somewhere in the left rear turn wiring harness that would make a dead short if it was wet. The wife could never be trained to "don't do that!" or to quickly turn the signal back off when the ammeter went to -40 A and burned the harness out at least twice. They never were able to find the actual location to fix; eventually replaced the whole left rear harness.

Unfortunately, with the third kid needed something with more room and I let it go for a song...it would be a collector's item now -- as would be the '63 Impala 2D HT it replaced.

The Charger was first new vehicle after leaving university; only one other actual new ever was an '88 Delta 88 with the "touring" suspension that was one of favorite vehicles ever had other than the Charger and the '99 300M. It was new because a rod bearing gave out on the way from TN to KS in Lebanon, TN, and elder son needed to be in Wichita for wedding rehearsal the next day so we didn't have time to piddle around. The '84 was getting a lot of miles anyway by then and daughter was going to need school car, and dealer had this on the lot so away we went.

I towed the '84 home and rebuilt it; learned my lesson then about Pennzoil and the high-running temperature of the emissions control at the time -- it had sludged up the top of the engine to the point almost nothing was going down the weep holes on any of the cylinders and the rearmost two completely blocked. It went another 150K and donated it to a friend just returning from missionary trip of two years. They used it for several years more...I think it had over 400K by the time they finally gave it up. Hard to beat an old 350 (or 283, either, for that matter).

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Michael Trew snipped-for-privacy@ymail.com on Sun, 20 Jun 2021 20:26:01 -0400 typed in rec.woodworking the following:

Mom bought the salesman's demo from the previous model year. I.e, in the fall, when the New Models Come out, she'd buy last years. That way, she got a gently used, perfectly maintained, many bells and whistle - for less. Then drive it for years.

Grandma just gave the Buick Roadmaster (loaded) to her daughter instead of trading it in. The Story goes that Aunt Dorothy was driving back from getting the latest, and the kid at the gas station asked "Lady, where did you get that car..." She said "You'll never believe me, but I just got it from a little old lady from Pasadena."

As I said when trying to change the plugs on my Dad's Pontiac back in the late 70s "Dad, you don't need a mechanic, you need a plumber."

Buddy of mine still has his 1990s Toyota Tercel. Mostly still original parts, mostly, kind of. But he has been working on cars since College, so for him, it is somewhere between hobby and "thrift". If I had a ~73 VW van, I could still do the work on it (I trained for three years on those beasts). But ... yoicks the cost of those things!