Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 3:42am snipped-for-privacy@nospam.invalid (J.=A0Clarke) who says: If you want to call it a fastener, then consider that the performance of glue ranges from that of a strand of spaghetti on up.
If it's so bad, why'd you call it structural material?
So which cultures build ocean-crossing vessels that depended on glue to maintain their structural integrity?
Noah.
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Not to maintain primary structural integrity.
See Noah.
Epoxy in some cases, resorcinol in others. And while it is possible to fiberglass over a cold-molded hull, that is not a necessary part of the process.
Fibreglass would be for me. It would help keep the bottom from abrading. I'm not taking about some sail boat or something, I'm talking about a boat that'll be run up on shore, in shallow water, in other words, used.
Caulking does not depend on any kind of adhesive unless you define the term _very_ loosely. Any source that equates caulking of wooden ships with adhesive bonding is at best questionable.
You might want to tell the British that. Their traditional method of caulking was oakum, then pine tar.
And what kind of boats did he glue together with it?
Didn't ask.
Please explain how that statement is different from an assertion that some kind of protective coating will always be used in glued construction.
Don't have to. I never said a couting would always be used.
If you consider the ships of the United States Navy to be "not well made" then perhaps your assertion might hold some validity.
Last I'd heard, most of them are now made out of steel.
I wasn't talking about frozen snot, I was talking about wood.
An unpainted, glued together boat?
What leads you to believe that cold molded construction involves fiberglass?
Mostly because I've read articles on people builting cold-molded boats that wanted them to a last a long, long time, without major maintenance.
If you believe that either fiberglass or epoxy is a necessary part of the process then you have been very sadily misinformed. Cold molded construction requires veneer, a waterproof adhesive, a mold,
No it doesn't. It does require thin wood, which can be strips. Watrproof adhesive, yeah that's best, but partly depends on usage, which you seem to ignore. A mold isn't necessary, if you apply directly over an old hull - some people call that cold-molding, some don't. You probably don't.
and some means of applying pressure during cure--that might involve a two-part mold or a vacuum bag or some other process.
Staples, or tacks will work.
There is no fiberglass involved and epoxy is not the best adhesive to use for the purpose.
Depends on who's doing it. There is more than one way.
Commonplace canoe construction.
Orange crate slats commonplace canoe construction?
If you put fasteners through the canvas then it leaked until the wood swelled. Unlike you, I _have_ owned such a canoe. Apparently you had a cheap canoe. I did say the Boy Scouts painted their canoes. And, the canvas canoes aren't made just by tacking canvas on, the canvas is protected with a coating - which makes the canoe waterproof. They don't need to have the wood swell so they won't leak.
Very few canoes are in the water long enough at a time for seepage to be an issue. Take that same canoe and tie it up at a marina and leave it there for a year and you'll find water in the bilge even if it's kept under cover so no rain gets in.
So? Condensation would do that.
You seem to think that one either has a leak that sinks the boat or one has a dry bilge. The truth is in between.
Do you think so?
Why would you need to caulk a plywood boat?
Well gee, I thought I'd either do that to piss you off, or to keep it from leaking.
However I think I'm beginning to see part of the problem. I suspect that you when you see the word "caulk" associate it with a product that you buy in a tube at Home Depot.
Ah, I see part of the problem. You think I don't know what caulk is. Well, I do. However, what I would use to caulk a plywood boat with, would indeed come in a tube. But, I don't sink so low as to shop at Home Depot.
That is not the sort of caulk that the Romans were using or the sort of caulk that the US Navy, the Royal Navy, the British East India Company, the Spanish Armada, or any of numerous other outfits that were famed for being able to go anywhere they wanted to any time they wanted to in wooden ships propelled by wind would be using. And that type of caulk is not used in the seams of modern boats either--the caulking is structural and must be driven into place with a mallet, a use to which such products are not amenable.
You left out that a "caulking iron" also has to be used in the process. I've already told you, I already know that, see somewhere up above about the oakum and pine tar. Wooden boats were often sheathed in sheet copper too, particularly war ships. So what? All sorts of things have been tried for caulking wooden boats, even horse manure. Again, so what?
When I think of a boat I don't think of something that sits on a trailer most of the time and gets towed down to the launching ramp to go fishing, I think of something that is launched once and stays in the water until it becomes necessary to remove it to clean the bottom or to prevent damage from ice,
Well now, you didn't say before, did you?
which vessel can when sufficient quantities of food and water are put aboard be aimed east and sailed until one bumps into Europe.
Well, that would be presuming it was in the Atlantic Ocean. Wouldn't work in the Pacific Ocean, or on a lake.
The realities of such vessels are considerably different from the realities of trailer-boats.
Gee, I am enlightened. I thought they were exacly the same.
And I still don't think it's realistic to depend on paint to keep the glue dry.
What is realistic is the fact that if someone makes a boat (a big boat, that can sail to Europe, if it's in the Atlantic ocean, and has enough food and water), that they're going to put paint on it. Or some kind of protective finish, unless maybe they've got a teak deck. Bottom paint is made specifically to put on the bottom of boats in sea water, to prevent under water growth, also called anti-fouling paint. But, maybe you won't paint the bottom, because you don't want to keep your glue dry.
On my income, I'll make a boat out of plywood, put it on a trailer, take it fishing, then trailer it back home, and enjoy the hell out of it. It'll probablyy be caulked with butyl caulk, probably from Ace Hardware, or Wal-Mart, fastened with glue and nails, fibreglassed along the seams and bottom, and painted with latex paint. As long as it works for me, I really don't give a damn about anyone else and what they've got.
I haven't had a lot to keep me occupied this weekend, and it's been fun, but you're just getting too silly. You're starting to sound like some of the officers I've worked for - "I know that's what I said, but that's not what I meant".
Making a success of the job at hand is the best step toward the kind you want.
- Bernard M. Baruch More likely, your boss gets a raise and/or promotion, from getting credit for your work.
- JOAT