Titebond III must be a very different animal.

[Greg Guarino]

I bought some Titebond III recently. I didn't need it to be waterproof but I liked the idea of longer open time for a little less stressful gluing. I had used TII and TI in the past. I used it to glue up that butcher-block-style table top. I'm "recycling" the wood which is currently finished with poly, I think. I'm going to sand off the old finish anyway so I didn't bother trying to meticulously remove the squeeze-out, especially on the bottom. I got a pretty generous gob of glue on the (chrome) bar of a Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamp. (I had left the clamps on for just about 24 hours - yes, I know I didn't need to) In my previous experience with wood glue, stuff like that would flick right off. Not so this time. It was stuck but good; had to use a knife to pry it off bit by bit.

[J. Clarke]

I learned that lesson too. Wax the clamps.

[dpb]

Yes, it is different, indeed. Original Yellow is an aliphatic resin, II is a PVA while III is a "proprietary polymer", but it is, as far as I know, still unique. It definitely has much a higher "stick factor" to metals and other non-wood slick surfaces.

[Leon]

Ah TiteBond. LOL I only use TB III and it failed the water proof test more than a decade ago when tested by a magazine. In fact the TBI proved to be more water proof than the TBIII. I had fun with that one when mentioning it to Franklin.

I have not checked lately but back then the "Spec" sheet for water proof, that TB used, was labeled water proof but no where in the definition were the words water proof. Water Resistant was in that Water Proof Spec sheet...

And yes as previously mentioned a touch of wax will help with the glue and really makes the clamps easy to slide along the rail.

[krw]

Cold or hot wax?

[dpb]

Both TB II and TB III pass a given ANSI Standard for water resistance. That's all it means ... as I recall the "test" the magazine did had no relationship to those tests. Of course, those tests are very artificial if you go look up what they consist of, but they are the recognized test standards.

Franklin never officially claimed anything otherwise; I notice they have somewhat modified the advertising jargon...

I use both but with so much work I do outside, the lower chalk temperature for TIII is extremely helpful.

I've not had a glue failure in any exterior application with TIII on anything I thought was at all a reasonable application for the product--it does everything it should do.

--

[Leon]

I keep BriWax on hand for screw lube and simple finishing on stuff that will not see any wear and tear. I used that, it is very soft in normal room temperature.

[Leon]

Yes, the "Glue Club" standard. But even in the early days the Water Proof Standard specification, was only defined as Water Resistant. Its like they pull you in with the Water Proof feature but in the fine print say ,not really.

And YES the magazine test was not close to the testing standards. The magazine test was testing the glue like the average consumer would expect a glue labeled Water Proof to perform.

Well, water proof on the bottle pretty much means water proof, which it was not according to the Water Proof testing standard Spec.

And even today the bottles says Water Proof.

I guess like Clinton, it depends on what the definition of is, is. Or in this case, Water Proof. LOL

Yes, and still I pretty much only TB III also. I prefer the color that it dries at. Tan vs. yellow. And the open time is easier to work with.

I will not argue that. I have not had it fail either. Although some maple flat grain cutting boards that I made a few years back have split along the glue lines. Not come apart but split on the ends. I suspect the daily washing and air drying has caused an issue.

[Leon]

A tad more mumbo jumbo from Franklins web site..

Features & Benefits Passes ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance Waterproof formula that cleans up with water

[dpb]

On 12/21/2020 9:40 AM, Leon wrote: ...

Yes. To add even more confusion part is that the Type I ANSI test is more stringent than Type II test -- and the TB II and TB III didn't have anything to do with the ANSI test type but were just product sequence numbers, but it just so happens TBII passes ANSI II--

"TITEBOND II PREMIUM WOOD GLUE Titebond II Premium Wood Glue is the only leading brand, one-part wood glue that passes the ANSI Type II water-resistance specification."

"TITEBOND III ULTIMATE WOOD GLUE Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue is the first one-part, water cleanup wood glue ever offered that is proven waterproof. The waterproof formula passes the ANSI/HPVA Type I water-resistance specification..."

I see they now also call TBII "Premium" and TBIII "Ultimate".

--

[Leon]

LOL. They are all good glues but if you really need actual water proof....well who knows.

You cannot take for granted, what the front "feature selling" label indicates, is what you think you are getting.

[Joe Gwinn]

If you want true waterproof wood glues, look into what people use when manufacturing wooden boats. It is not Titebond <anything>.

The traditional glue was Resorcinol:

.

Nor will Resorcinol (or epoxy) creep in warm weather.

Hide glue doesn't creep either.

War story: In the 1970s, I dismantled (to a pile of sticks and planks) and reassembled an old drop-leaf dining table as if it were a wooden boat. All joints were glued with resorcinol, and the table was heavily varnished with Urethane floor varnish (solvent type), seven coats on the top and five coats elsewhere. This was a gift to a girlfriend who liked houseplants a lot - this table was totally impervious to spills from watering the menagerie. I think she still has that table.

Joe Gwinn

[J. Clarke]

Epoxy does creep. It takes it a while and generally requires a pretty heavy loading, but that it does is well known among engineers who work with composite materials.

Not usually an issue in woodworking, but something to keep in the back of your mind.