No, Leon, I haven't. As I've said, I'm not questioning the quality of
the SawStop but rather the "consensus".
And not the consensus of just the "wreck". There must be a market for
the other "quality" table saws or the SawStop would put its competitors
out of business. (and not saying that won't happen either) ;-)
The last time this issue surfaced I mentioned that *if* I bought one the
first time that brake busted my saw and blade I would trade it for
a saw without the feature. In other words there's more to the equation
than saving a finger. For me.
Repeating what I have mentioned in another part of this thread, there
have been numerous publications with comparisons and the SawStop tends
to come out on top. I did a lot of Googling prior to spending $4k for
my SS. And as I mentioned above, Delta is almost there and or was a
couple of years ago. I saw a video of their come back from the dead
production facility. A brand new facility IIRC. It at the time a
couple of years ago appeared to be about the size of a 15~20 bar
automotive repair shop. I was rather shocked.
I don't think you would have any worries with the brake busting the saw.
The same contractor saw gets demonstrated time and again during most
wood working shows. If the contractor and pro versions operate in the
same manner there is a release of the arbor assembly as it drops below
the table surface. Energy is absorbed by the brake and the rubber
bumper stop at the bottom of the drop.
If the contractors saw can take the rigors of the brake engaging time
and again I seriously doubt that any thing in the industrial version
would be at risk with all of its mass under the table.
That's certainly true. It *has* to be heavier to take the shock when/if
the brake fires.
But I worked for a power tool retailer for a few years and had the
opportunity to examine (and @#$% assemble) several brands and types of
table saws. I think the cabinet saws from Powermatic, General, and maybe
even Steel City, are equal or better in quality to the Sawstop.
A prospective buyer has to weigh the importance of quality, price, and
features. Different people will come to different conclusions.
Where have all the flowers gone? Pete Seeger 1919-2014
Exactly and that benefits the user with a better built arbor/trunnion
That could be true but there is a lot of data that indicates SawStop is
a bit ahead. Considering that I was looking at $5k+ saws a year ago I
was looking pretty closely at the innards of each brand. PM, The Euro
Laguna's, Felder, and Hammer were all in the hunt. General would have
been had I been able to easily see one. Steel City may not be around
much longer and I was never really impressed with that brand.
That is exactly true. Some people will buy an American or German
product but never again after having the opportunity to use or own a
Japanese product. It is all in how much value you place in safety,
quality, value. etc. Safety is my personal top of the list and is the
leading reason that I recently bought the industrial SS over the Laguna
TS with the scoring blade.
In conjunction with your thumb injury years ago, your woodworking is
frequently used for making a living. I suspect your wife's opinion
might be an additional factor. All those factors added together would
be a great motivator for a SawStop purchase.
Buying yourself a gun for protection against the possibility of being
attacked or robbed is costly. But NOT nearly as costly as losing your
right to own that type of protection.
Out lawing guns will only take protection away from the law biding
citizens. Criminals, the people we need guns to protect ourselves from,
will be the only ones that will still have guns if we lose our rights to
Some people know karate and don't need guns to begin with. These people
know that the gun manufacturers are only out to make guns for profit and
really don't care about your safety.
No one is asking you to loose your arm to buy a different brand.
Forcing SawStop on everyone will also take table saws away from a
*lot* of people.
Nonsense. Karate is no replacement for a gun, no matter what Bruce
Lee movies show. I suppose all gun manufacturers all delete safeties
from their guns because they want them to be dangerous? Umm, get
On 3/9/2014 10:35 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
FWIW I had the same attitude and comments here as those that have not
yet benefited from the SawStop or see the benefit of spending and extra
thousand on a saw, 25 years ago.
You cut your self it is your own damn fault and you did something wrong.
I'll be careful and practice every rule that I have read or have been
Then one day I cut half my thumb off, about 15 years later SawStop is on
the horizon. Today I own a SawStop. Wow what did I do wrong???
Hummmmmm obviously I did something wrong... and it took me about one
year to almost cut my thumb off again before I realized what had
actually happened. No set of safety rules "directly" addressed what
went wrong. I can assure you that safety rules only cover the basics
and it is not unusual to be in a situation that is not specifically
addressed in the "rules".
Unfortunately one never really understands every conceivable way that
you can be injured by the TS, that is until you have an unfortunate
accident, IF you have an accident. No one ever tries to have an
accident but no one lives a charmed life, one with out accidents.
It is all a matter of choice of how safe you want your equipment to be
and how much you value your safety.
All things considered, and knowing what I do about why accidents are
called accidents, I choose my safety over principal.
So for anyone that has not yet been convinced that a SawStop is a smart
investment or an investment worth saving up for, I totally understand, I
have been in your shoes.
And FWIW if any one believes that you will get a false sense of security
by using a SawStop TS I can assure you that I have not. There is
something about a blade spinning at 100 MPH that is very real and still
Why do I preach the SawStop? I am not the only one that knows that
accidents happen and myself and others like me would rather pay extra to
help prevent another accident from happening. I really felt pretty
stupid after cutting half my thumb off. I don't want to feel that way
again if there is a way to add the extra margin of safety.
Y'all be careful!
On 3/9/2014 5:22 PM, email@example.com wrote:
No,no,no, I am not saying that every one should buy the SawStop so much
as I have a perspective from both sides and in my instance it was the
right choice for me. As far as those that have not benefited, I am
referring to those that have used a SawStop and caused it to lock up the
blade to prevent a cut. I do believe that if you were to use one and
actually have an accident that causes the brake to engage and you don't
end up at the ER you probably would agree that the SawStop is really
worth a bit more consideration.
Exactly however the SawStop does help to prevent severing a body part.
I am talking any kind of accident, tripping and falling, paper cut, etc.
We all know exactly how to prevent any of these accidents but they
still happen. We become complacent or something out of our control
happens. The same can happen with the TS.
This is very true.
So because you mentioned Gass is this more of an emotional decision
given many don't care for the way he operates? Or do you honestly
believe that with patent depletion that competition will drive the
prices down? Have you considered what inflation will do to the pricing?
For example and these are just close comparisons, about 10-12 years ago
the PM2000 with 50" fence and 3hp motor was approximately $2000. Today
Woodcraft offers it for $3364 before the current 15% sale discount.
in 2000 a similar Jet was $1300 today, $2449 before the 15% sale
discount. You can probably expect for prices to do the same in the
next 10 years and that is going to put those particular TS's in excess
of the price of an industrial SawStop today, $3999. For a more
comparable Professional SawStop, $2999. today. And yes, the SawStop
does compare in quality to the saws mentioned. It is not a budget built
Just something to consider. Certainly the SawStop will be more
expensive later on too but there is no guarantee that the competition
will offer some type of similar safety feature then either, should you
find that you want a saw with that feature. Something to remember, all
of those competitors had the opportunity to have the SawStop technology
before SawStop considered building their own saw to compete. They did
not want it then, they may not want it later. Anyway none of the above
is certain to happen but by the same token is not a stretch of the
And if yu simply don't want to send any pennies Gass's way that is OK
I misread what you said. It sometimes reads like you are making that
case and at other times not. I apologize if I'm putting words in your
If. If. If. But you're right. When I had an asshole (switched
plates, no insurance, no DL, on parole from State Penn, etc.) run a
stop sign and T-Bone me, I wished I'd stayed in bed that day. However,
life is dangerous and that day paid the same as the other 10,000 days
I've driven to work.
Where is your RouterStop? ...or BandStop? ...or Heavens help us all,
JointerStop? Yes, that's my point. Life *is* dangerous. That's no
reason to be afraid or to spend lots of money in one small area of
life to make it "safe" at the expense of everything else.
Both, to be honest. I was trying to keep Gass' crony capitalism
attempts out of this discussion. Competition *will* drive the SawStop
*function* prices down as soon as the patents expire. Competition is
Understood. I don't own a PM'anything. I once was about to buy one
of their drill presses but the price jumped rather big-time, just
about when the Delta 18-900L came out. I liked it a lot better, for
what the PM cost before the bump. The point is that you're comparing
it to the most expensive, not the "best values".
They didn't want to pay Gass' asking price (not just the $$).
I don't but not because of the technology. If it were a technology
issue, I'd want to see him as rich as Gates. I *like* to see rich
people. I don't like to see some people get rich, though. ;-)
On 3/9/2014 6:43 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
No apology necessary. I don't claim to be perfectly clear. ;~)
YES lots of If's in there... Same reason we chose to have health
insurance or not, once upon a time.
Yeah but in many cases there are more obvious dangers and we try to
guard against them. Nothing has really changed, there are safe guards
everywhere and the vast majority are good things on their own merrit
despite the fact that the government mandated them and cause all of us
to pay way too much.
Well I commend you for admitting to both. You have now presented a
valid reason for the way you think about the SS. And yes competition is
good for all.
Sorry on the comparison, I was shooting for the best comparison of like
build quality, fit, finish, features. etc.... For simply cutting a
board there is not bottom limit for what will suffice.
Understood but you never know what the actual price and or concessions
will be until after the contract is agreed upon by both parties.
I have a Unisaw with which I am well pleased...except for dust
collection. *If* I should decide that I want a new table saw I can tell
you right now that dust collection will be the deciding factor after
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