We got off topic of an off topic post, its all good, dont get upset. If you
want to deal with that specific, how does a clerk jumping someone have to do
with someone being a witness to shoplifting...life is too short to argue
Have a great day Charlie
they have a tough job. but it's one they signed up for. give them
cretit for what they do, and hold them to the highest standards.
Frankly, I think they're underpaid and the hiring standards are way
me, I've seen way too much abuse of authority to have any respect for
the uniform. cops are people. they want my respect, they need to earn
Is this you? That's what would give the truth to this statement. Are you happy
that you're fulfilling what you signed up for?
How would we know?
I've seen too many liberals put the
strong, straight and narrow strap on
others while practicing indulgent
The original statement had zip to do with cops. It was clerks in a WalMart
Bullshit. Criminals fear jail time, but they know that a good lawyer means
their only jail time will be in the arrest pen.
I do not owe a clerk cooperation or an explanation of anything. Jesus.
When did citizens lose the right to be left alone when they have not done
Neither one of us knows whether the parties jumped were guilty or innocent.
But, then, neither did the clerks who did the jumping. They thought they knew.
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
Clerks, cops, or rent a cops. If the thief gets hurt during a crime, too
bad for him. We should not have to fear hurting him when he is caught red
Therefore, they do not fear going to jail.
If you are stealing you certainly do and I would gladly prove my innocence
if asked to display the inside of my coat if approached in a store that I am
visiting. I may never go back but I would respect the store for trying to
protect it's assets. It certainly beats making a scene and for sure looking
guilty, guilty or not.
So how is the Bird House Book coming?
So if a security guard had suffacted you, you would have deserved it???
I certainly would not have blamed him for doing his job. I was wrong.
Had I died, then it would have been my time to go. Stranger things have
happened. No body gets out a live.
You're kidding, right? If the security guards/cops/manager came out and
beat the crap out of/maimed/killed you, you wouldn't blame them?
Remember, "Jail time obviousely does not work. The only thing most
criminals fear is being beaten up," and by admission, you're a criminal
This has to be the second silliest comment on this whole thread (the
first being something about the Democrats and the end of the world).
If the security guards/cops/manager came out and beat the crap out
of/maimed/killed you, you wouldn't blame them?
If I had been stealing, in this instance that was the concequense. I think
more people should tak responsibility for their actions instead of blaming
some one else or whining about oues rights being stepped on. If I
electrocut my self because I stepped in water while repairing a live wire I
would not blame the power company either. It was my mistake, not the store
That is what I believe I said.
Perhaps it does sound silly to you but I was taught that if you cause
problems intentionally or not, you will have a price to pay.
Jesus is right. It's common courtesy to answer reasonable questions posed
by the designated representatives of the owners of the property on which
you are standing. I don't see why you have a problem with it.
Walking onto somebody else's property and then getting pissed off when they
ask you what you are doing there is not "doing nothing". In fact it is
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
Yeah, common courtesy. It seems that some of our laws are makeing it to
where the thief gets the common courtesy over the person trying to protect
his property. What is wrong with this picture. It has always been my
belief that if you are uncooperative in a matter such as this, you probably
have something to hide.
When "Liberal Laws" were passed. That does not mean laws passed by
Exactly, but some think that this is profiling..
On 17 Aug 2004 19:09:26 GMT, email@example.com (Charlie Self)
|>Which IMHO is part of the problem. Ir law breakers had the fear of being|>punished, they may not break so many laws. If some one is seen stealing, he|>is not a suspect in the eyes of most people, he is truely guilty of|>stealing. But, unfortunately, the liberal laws protect the criminal.|>Again, don't let the criminal piss on your shoe and tell you is raining.
|Oh, bullshit. What you are recommending is basically vigilante justice, with
|the cops doing all the deciding of who is and isn't guilty.
|Given, our legal system is in need of repair. Given, too many people get away
|with too much. Given, something has to be done. Not given: cops with the right
|to do as the damned well please on any or no evidence at all.
|If we could be absolutely sure ever cop, especially rent-a-cops though, had
|perfect judgment, then quite possibly allowing them to manhandle prisoners, or
|about-to-be prisoners, might be justified. Unfortunately, no one has perfect
|judgment, and double unfortunately, the Consitution gives us particular rights
|around arrest and incarceration.
|Law breakers should have the fear of the law drummed into them. But I don't
|want clerks in stores decided that I shoved something in my pocket because they
|didn't see me put it back on the shelf. Or, rather, I don't want them following
|me out of the store and jumping on me, or anyone else, over such things. I'm
|too old and fat to retaliate as I once might have, but I could sure as hell
|remove some teeth and part of an ear, maybe all of it, before going down.
Unfortunately, in Arizona alledged shoplifting is a capital crime
punishable by summary execution.
Quote from: http://www.1delta.net/news0604.html
" D.A. Will NOT File Charges In Death Of Shoplifter
(Tucson,AZ-June 13,2004)--On Feb 26, Frank Hernandez,36, entered the
Safeway Food & Drug store and was soon suspected of shoplifting by the
store's Security Guards. When the Security Guards tried to detain
Hernandez for questioning, the suspect resisted and a struggle ensued
resulting in Hernandez death. On Fri. the Pima County Attorney's
Office stated they do NOT plan to file charges in the case against the
store & Security Guards involved. An autopsy showed Hernandez died of
"asphyxia due to neck compression" and also had internal hemorrhaging
and suffered blunt-force injuries. In a letter to the Tucson Police
Department, Deputy County Attorney Rick Unklesbay said, "Frank
Hernandez's death is tragic, but I cannot conclude that it is
criminal." Unklesbay said several factors played into his decision,
from witness accounts that described Hernandez as provoking the fight
to a state law that allows merchants to detain suspected shoplifters.
Another state law also allows people to use physical force when
detaining others for law enforcement."
A newspaper article indicated that the security guard had no problem
whatsoever "taking down" Mr. Hernandez, so I believe that any
"self-defense-in-fear-of-my life" defense is inapplicable.
Note the last two sentences in the quoted material. Any store
employee, or agent can detain *anyone* they suspect of shoplifting.
If that person resists, physical force can be used to detain the
individual. It appears that if this escalates to *deadly force* that
is okay too.
ARS 13-1805.5.C states: A merchant, or a merchant's agent or employee,
with reasonable cause, may detain on the premises in a reasonable
manner and for a reasonable time any person suspected of shoplifting
as defined in subsection A of this section for questioning or
summoning a law enforcement officer.
ARS 13-1805.5.D states: Reasonable cause is a defense to a civil or
criminal action against a peace officer, a merchant or an agent or
employee of such merchant for false arrest, false or unlawful
imprisonment or wrongful detention.
(I will write more about the above in another post.)
ARS 13-408 states: A person is justified in using physical force
against another when and to the extent that a reasonable person would
believe it necessary to prevent what a reasonable person would believe
is an attempt or commission by the other person of theft or criminal
damage involving tangible movable property under his possession or
control, but such person may use deadly physical force under these
circumstances as provided in sections 13-405, 13-406 and 13-411.
None of these sections seem to apply to shoplifting, but the DA
obviously thinks they do.
So in Arizona anyway, if you leave the Borg and the buzzer goes off as
you go out the door because the clerk didn't zap the rfid tag, and you
keep walking, you can be killed. Who said the wild west was dead.
Last year at a grocery store near where I live, the male suspect died.
He was stealing diapers I believe. He suffocated. The security guards
held him on the ground with their knees on his chest. He couldn't
breath. Suffocation by chest compression, should be covered in training
Is this what they call "compassionate conservatism?" That someone stealing
deserves to die? Why not just cut off his hand as they do in less civilized
This isn't an eye for an eye--this is a life for an eye, and that's not
right. The guy deserved a trial and conviction within a legal system, not
execution by a $8 an hour civilian. When we start allowing vigilante justice
we are well down the road to barbarism.
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.