Selling woodworking tools on ebay - any pointers...
Before I jump in I was hoping some of you would have a few good pointers and or info.
I want to sell some woodworking tools on ebay but don't know much about the service with respect to selling.
I want to have at least two pictures per item - does ebay provide a good service to allow posting of pics or should I go with an other service or am I allowed to direct browsers to my webspace...
I don't plan to put on a reserve or high starting bid but(!) some of the items I just can't part with for "nothing." Can I withdraw an item if the bidding is too low?
And in your experience what's the best way to list.
Thx Mat
and
the
am
Posting more than one image costs you extra. You can make a HTML page as your ebay auction page and imbed links to images freely though if you have those images hosted elsewhere.
Reserve will ensure you get what you are after, but again it costs to set a reserve but often worth it. Sometimes you get a good price without a reserve and it can attract more bidders, but other times you just dont get the price you wanted. You can only withdraw an item if there are no bids on it.
-- Regards,
Dean Bielanowski Editor, Online Tool Reviews http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com Over 50 woodworking product reviews online! ------------------------------------------------------------ Latest 6 Reviews: - Spaceage Ceramic Bandsaw Guides - Infinity "Dadonator" Stacked Dado Set - GMC LS950SPJ Scrolling Jigsaw - Triton Powered Respirator - Veritas Power Tool Guide - Ryobi 6" Grinder/Stand Combo ------------------------------------------------------------
That may be the official rules, but they are not enforced. My wife was furious when she was bidding on an item and it was withdrawn and sold privately. She complained loud and long to ebay. They did nothing.
The real rules on ebay are the seller ratings.
Bob
On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:46:24 GMT, "Bob Davis"
The ones you can't change unless you complete the transaction?
Barry
The ones you can't change unless you complete the transaction?
Barry
Greetings and Salutations...
Well, in general, my pointer would be to
try and ensure that you sell them for more than
you paid for them...or at least a chunk of what
you paid for them.
Don't make up the difference in shipping
and handling costs.
DO make sure to reply promptly to emails
from your customers.
DO make sure to send out reminder Emails
promptly.
DO make sure to send tracking information
when available...even if they don't ask.
On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:46:24 GMT, "Bob Davis"
I suspect that IF Ebay bothered to ask the seller about this situation, the reply was that someone else had been looking at it, had dropped it and damaged it, so the seller had done the "right" thing - cancelled all the pending bids and withdrawn the auction. That, I believe, would fall within the rules. Now...if the seller was LYING and, indeed, sold the thing out from under y'all....that sucks...but is life. I agree that Ebay really does not care. After all, why should they? They get paid huge amounts of cash for not too much work, and there are no regulations that would make them responsible. The good news is...although I suspect it is hard for your wife to do...that she can chill out, as there will be another one come along, and, she likely will get it for a better price than the first one. For Buyers...it is REALLY GOOD to remember that the item you are bidding on is NOT YOURS. So...the other bidders are not trying to take it away from you, like little babies in a playpen grabbing toys. If one gets too much of an emotional commitment to an item on Ebay...one WILL pay way too much for it. This is hard to do...but an excellent way to play the game.
Well, "rules" might be a bit strong. However, that is becoming a problem too, thanks to the fact that Ebay allows sellers to hold their feedback hostage until the buyer gives THEM feedback. I don't recall if it was a rule, or custom in the early days of Ebay that pushed a seller to leave feedback for the buyer at the time that the seller shipped the item. In any case, if it was a rule, it is one that has been quietly changed, and, if it was JUST custom...I think it ought to BE a rule. After all, In this transaction, the buyer has fulfilled his or her part of the bargain at the point that the seller has received payment and is shipping the item. It only seems fair to me that is the point that feedback should be left for the buyer. Now...feedback for the seller SHOULD wait until the buyer has received the item and determined if all is ok. However, in way too many cases these days, the seller will not leave feedback until they have received feedback from the buyer. Way too often, the seller's feedback has NOTHING to do with the buyer's performance in the deal, but, is retribution for negative feedback the buyer leaves. Is that right or fair? I don't think so. Also, I have had some sellers tell me that they don't leave feedback for a buyer UNLESS that buyer leaves feedback for them. This seems wrong to me too, as that is not part of the feedback "deal". However, I suppose it is "legal" as a quick look at the confusing maze of EBAY POLICIES does not turn up any requirements other than that the feedback not fall into the illegal area. Of course, the sellers squeal like stuck pigs at the thought that they should lose this advantage of being able to hold feedback hostage. However, I would be happy to allow the feedback to be expanded, to allow sellers to go back and add commentary to existing feedback in any case (not just negative feedback) to help deal with this situation. The feedback mechanism is flexible, after all. Look at the recently implimented policy of Ebay to allow seller and buyer to mutually agree to withdraw feedback. That is both a big change and a new one. In any case, Ebay is a strange place in its own way, and while it can be a great help, it has, alas, become less user friendly than it used to be, and, more of a money vacuum for folks out West. Regards dave mundt
On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:46:24 GMT, "Bob Davis"
I suspect that IF Ebay bothered to ask the seller about this situation, the reply was that someone else had been looking at it, had dropped it and damaged it, so the seller had done the "right" thing - cancelled all the pending bids and withdrawn the auction. That, I believe, would fall within the rules. Now...if the seller was LYING and, indeed, sold the thing out from under y'all....that sucks...but is life. I agree that Ebay really does not care. After all, why should they? They get paid huge amounts of cash for not too much work, and there are no regulations that would make them responsible. The good news is...although I suspect it is hard for your wife to do...that she can chill out, as there will be another one come along, and, she likely will get it for a better price than the first one. For Buyers...it is REALLY GOOD to remember that the item you are bidding on is NOT YOURS. So...the other bidders are not trying to take it away from you, like little babies in a playpen grabbing toys. If one gets too much of an emotional commitment to an item on Ebay...one WILL pay way too much for it. This is hard to do...but an excellent way to play the game.
Well, "rules" might be a bit strong. However, that is becoming a problem too, thanks to the fact that Ebay allows sellers to hold their feedback hostage until the buyer gives THEM feedback. I don't recall if it was a rule, or custom in the early days of Ebay that pushed a seller to leave feedback for the buyer at the time that the seller shipped the item. In any case, if it was a rule, it is one that has been quietly changed, and, if it was JUST custom...I think it ought to BE a rule. After all, In this transaction, the buyer has fulfilled his or her part of the bargain at the point that the seller has received payment and is shipping the item. It only seems fair to me that is the point that feedback should be left for the buyer. Now...feedback for the seller SHOULD wait until the buyer has received the item and determined if all is ok. However, in way too many cases these days, the seller will not leave feedback until they have received feedback from the buyer. Way too often, the seller's feedback has NOTHING to do with the buyer's performance in the deal, but, is retribution for negative feedback the buyer leaves. Is that right or fair? I don't think so. Also, I have had some sellers tell me that they don't leave feedback for a buyer UNLESS that buyer leaves feedback for them. This seems wrong to me too, as that is not part of the feedback "deal". However, I suppose it is "legal" as a quick look at the confusing maze of EBAY POLICIES does not turn up any requirements other than that the feedback not fall into the illegal area. Of course, the sellers squeal like stuck pigs at the thought that they should lose this advantage of being able to hold feedback hostage. However, I would be happy to allow the feedback to be expanded, to allow sellers to go back and add commentary to existing feedback in any case (not just negative feedback) to help deal with this situation. The feedback mechanism is flexible, after all. Look at the recently implimented policy of Ebay to allow seller and buyer to mutually agree to withdraw feedback. That is both a big change and a new one. In any case, Ebay is a strange place in its own way, and while it can be a great help, it has, alas, become less user friendly than it used to be, and, more of a money vacuum for folks out West. Regards dave mundt
Damned if i know wrote:
looks up, sees the word tools in the subject line and nods approvingly...
Okee dokee.
It is set up so anyone at the shallow end of the gene pool is at an automatic disadvantage.
I think the eBay supplied service is good enough providing the original (your picture) isn't real shitty.
No you cannot. Per the eBay rules once a bid is placed you legally have to sell it. Now that's not to say that you can't put a reserve on it and identify within the description what the reserve is.
Got a minute?
Let's start with The Three eBay Kisses of Death.
TeKoD No. 1: Bad description. Take a moment or two to examine the item. Note the maker. Note the pertinent data like how big it is, motor horsepower, motor phase, when it was made and condition, to name a couple/few. No really. You wouldn't believe the number of people who are selling "this tool, I don't quite know what it does". In other words, you cannot over describe something.
TeKoD No. 2: No picture. It's 2004, buy a digital. But don't stop there. Crop the picture when you're done. I mean, we really don't need to see your kitty cat in the picture or your cousin Ralph in the background scratching his balls. No really, there's an auction running now and there's this dork in the background frozen in time mid-ball grab.
Rotate the picture if it needs to be rotated. I mean, eBay even has this feature in the upload part of the process and people just don't seem to care.
Don't put the piece in the door of the garage and shoot it from the inside looking out. It's called back light and it pretty much screws up the meter and that means you won't be getting a decent shot.
Don't shoot with harsh light that creates shadows. Best to shoot on an overcast day.
Go find a 'frigerator box (if you have big stuff) and cut it open. Place this behind the item. Again, we don't need to be seeing anything other than the item.
Clean it. Doesn't mean you need it showroom shiney, just that you want to maximize the return and while you're at it, don't shoot the shot with a bunch of other shit strung over/on the item.
TeKoD No. 3: Pick up only. Now granted, this one does sometimes need to be adhered to but if you figure that someone out there reeeeeeeeeeeeeally wants it and is willing to pay to have it shipped you might as well accommodate them if you can.
Now, here's a pointer they don't tell you about anywhere else. Boxes. I try and make sure I have a "proper" box for something before I list it. To this end I've found a local business that throws away boxes by the hunnerts and I'll swing by there every week or so to see if they have anything that looks good. I typically horde a few dozen at a time. Your local supermarket or hardware stores are also good sources. Find out when they get their weekly deliveries and be on hand for that.
Lastly, start with some smaller (less expensive/stuff you don't care about) items and throw them up. Get your feet wet and take it from there. Before you know it you'll be thanking Al Gore for inventing eBay.
UA100
looks up, sees the word tools in the subject line and nods approvingly...
Okee dokee.
It is set up so anyone at the shallow end of the gene pool is at an automatic disadvantage.
I think the eBay supplied service is good enough providing the original (your picture) isn't real shitty.
No you cannot. Per the eBay rules once a bid is placed you legally have to sell it. Now that's not to say that you can't put a reserve on it and identify within the description what the reserve is.
Got a minute?
Let's start with The Three eBay Kisses of Death.
TeKoD No. 1: Bad description. Take a moment or two to examine the item. Note the maker. Note the pertinent data like how big it is, motor horsepower, motor phase, when it was made and condition, to name a couple/few. No really. You wouldn't believe the number of people who are selling "this tool, I don't quite know what it does". In other words, you cannot over describe something.
TeKoD No. 2: No picture. It's 2004, buy a digital. But don't stop there. Crop the picture when you're done. I mean, we really don't need to see your kitty cat in the picture or your cousin Ralph in the background scratching his balls. No really, there's an auction running now and there's this dork in the background frozen in time mid-ball grab.
Rotate the picture if it needs to be rotated. I mean, eBay even has this feature in the upload part of the process and people just don't seem to care.
Don't put the piece in the door of the garage and shoot it from the inside looking out. It's called back light and it pretty much screws up the meter and that means you won't be getting a decent shot.
Don't shoot with harsh light that creates shadows. Best to shoot on an overcast day.
Go find a 'frigerator box (if you have big stuff) and cut it open. Place this behind the item. Again, we don't need to be seeing anything other than the item.
Clean it. Doesn't mean you need it showroom shiney, just that you want to maximize the return and while you're at it, don't shoot the shot with a bunch of other shit strung over/on the item.
TeKoD No. 3: Pick up only. Now granted, this one does sometimes need to be adhered to but if you figure that someone out there reeeeeeeeeeeeeally wants it and is willing to pay to have it shipped you might as well accommodate them if you can.
Now, here's a pointer they don't tell you about anywhere else. Boxes. I try and make sure I have a "proper" box for something before I list it. To this end I've found a local business that throws away boxes by the hunnerts and I'll swing by there every week or so to see if they have anything that looks good. I typically horde a few dozen at a time. Your local supermarket or hardware stores are also good sources. Find out when they get their weekly deliveries and be on hand for that.
Lastly, start with some smaller (less expensive/stuff you don't care about) items and throw them up. Get your feet wet and take it from there. Before you know it you'll be thanking Al Gore for inventing eBay.
UA100
Unisaw A100 wrote:
We (wife and I) prefer using our own server. At first it was the space with our road runner account but it's 10 meg server /100 meg throughput limits too inhibiting so I got StangII.com. 600 meg, 6 gig. Costs about $100/ year total.
You can sell anything, even broken stuff, with a honest description.
Look through http://alba.stangii.com (This is all Wife's stuff)
The only pictures not cropped are the ones where the item filled the file.
Wife was researching a Churchill Downs glass. came across one with a picture of the glass in the horizontal. How freaking lazy can they get?
You don't always rotate 90. like this graphic:
http://alba.stangii.com/0529/12.JPG
If there is a problem, something's broken or even mildly damaged I document it and take a picture, like the flea bite in this glass:
http://alba.stangii.com/0530/01a.JPG
It's the picture and thousand words saw (OBOT). I don't want to give anyone a reason to feel they were deceived.
Consequently everyone's happy.
I assume everything posted is to be shipped. I had better be able to hoist it onto a pallet or into a box on the back of the truck to get it to a terminal.
Wife works for the University, she looks through and by the recycle bin daily. She gives boxes away.
Another hint: The Post Office gives away Priority Mail boxes and supplies.
Buy some smaller stuff, build feedback by buying.
Get a pay pal account.
We (wife and I) prefer using our own server. At first it was the space with our road runner account but it's 10 meg server /100 meg throughput limits too inhibiting so I got StangII.com. 600 meg, 6 gig. Costs about $100/ year total.
You can sell anything, even broken stuff, with a honest description.
Look through http://alba.stangii.com (This is all Wife's stuff)
The only pictures not cropped are the ones where the item filled the file.
Wife was researching a Churchill Downs glass. came across one with a picture of the glass in the horizontal. How freaking lazy can they get?
You don't always rotate 90. like this graphic:
If there is a problem, something's broken or even mildly damaged I document it and take a picture, like the flea bite in this glass:
It's the picture and thousand words saw (OBOT). I don't want to give anyone a reason to feel they were deceived.
Consequently everyone's happy.
I assume everything posted is to be shipped. I had better be able to hoist it onto a pallet or into a box on the back of the truck to get it to a terminal.
Wife works for the University, she looks through and by the recycle bin daily. She gives boxes away.
Another hint: The Post Office gives away Priority Mail boxes and supplies.
Buy some smaller stuff, build feedback by buying.
Get a pay pal account.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Click to see the full signature.
Derivation of a Talibano/RNC disinformation. Widely known to be false but preserved by some diehards.
Truth -> High Speed Computing Act
Helps all, even the RNC slimer crowd.
Why did you leave out your advice to end an ebay description with the word "peace?"
wrote:
Truth (part 1): Gore's exact words were "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." [CNN interview with Wolf Blitzer, 9 Mar 1999]
Truth (part 2): Gore's first term in Congress began in 1977.
Truth (part 3): the internet has been around a LOT longer than that.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
Truth (part 1): Gore's exact words were "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." [CNN interview with Wolf Blitzer, 9 Mar 1999]
Truth (part 2): Gore's first term in Congress began in 1977.
Truth (part 3): the internet has been around a LOT longer than that.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
wrote:
You beat me to the punch, Doug. Funny how people can claim something didn't happen when we have it in Al's own words. I don't know which is better, though...Al inventing the Internet or John Kerry "casting the deciding vote on a bill that created 20 million jobs". If all John Kerry has to do is cast a vote and create some jobs, what has he been doing the past few years? Sandbagging the current administration? I say that Kerry should go cast some more votes and create some more jobs, pronto.
todd
You beat me to the punch, Doug. Funny how people can claim something didn't happen when we have it in Al's own words. I don't know which is better, though...Al inventing the Internet or John Kerry "casting the deciding vote on a bill that created 20 million jobs". If all John Kerry has to do is cast a vote and create some jobs, what has he been doing the past few years? Sandbagging the current administration? I say that Kerry should go cast some more votes and create some more jobs, pronto.
todd
You sure are slow on the uptake. Al's own words were true.
What about Al's own words?????????
Bush says he is creating jobs repeatedly and he has his giant PR apparatus saying the same. So is it true when Bush or his dozens of syncophants say they are creating jobs?
Nobody has to sandbag Bush. He and his cronies are doing just fine driving the country into the toilet.
wrote:
didn't
Well, if the internet was in existence prior to Al's
As has already been pointed out, Al said "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet". You wanna split hairs on the difference in meaning between "invent" and "create"? Now, do I think that even Al thinks he "invented" or "created" the Internet? No...at least I hope not. It's just funny that as a politician, he has to associate himself with something that most people think is a very positive force. His words on their face are laughable. You really want to deny that?
years?
Personally, when speaking of private sector jobs, I don't think any politician "creates" jobs. They can make it easier or harder for businesses to do so, but they can't create them. But you failed to answer my question. If all Kerry has to do is cast a vote and create some jobs, why doesn't he just do it again? Or is his campaign ad just a bunch of BS?
That's certainly the liberal party line. Excellent job being a parrot. Unfortunately, the truth is just the opposite. Nearly every economic indicator is positive, but you'd be hard-pressed to know it from listening to the media. The Labor Department is about to announce that another 225,000 jobs were added in May, making the total jobs created in the last 3 months around 850,000. The index of Leading Economic Indicators has risen 12 of the past 13 months. The list goes on. Trust me...this election won't be decided based on the state of the economy. You'd better just stick with "Bush lied about Iraq", because you're not going to have anything else come November.
didn't
Well, if the internet was in existence prior to Al's
As has already been pointed out, Al said "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet". You wanna split hairs on the difference in meaning between "invent" and "create"? Now, do I think that even Al thinks he "invented" or "created" the Internet? No...at least I hope not. It's just funny that as a politician, he has to associate himself with something that most people think is a very positive force. His words on their face are laughable. You really want to deny that?
years?
Personally, when speaking of private sector jobs, I don't think any politician "creates" jobs. They can make it easier or harder for businesses to do so, but they can't create them. But you failed to answer my question. If all Kerry has to do is cast a vote and create some jobs, why doesn't he just do it again? Or is his campaign ad just a bunch of BS?
That's certainly the liberal party line. Excellent job being a parrot. Unfortunately, the truth is just the opposite. Nearly every economic indicator is positive, but you'd be hard-pressed to know it from listening to the media. The Labor Department is about to announce that another 225,000 jobs were added in May, making the total jobs created in the last 3 months around 850,000. The index of Leading Economic Indicators has risen 12 of the past 13 months. The list goes on. Trust me...this election won't be decided based on the state of the economy. You'd better just stick with "Bush lied about Iraq", because you're not going to have anything else come November.
Todd Fatheree writes:
But that will be enough.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
But that will be enough.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
with
come
We'll see. For any Bush "lie", I can find 5 Democrats that have said the same thing. I think the election may turn on what kind of place Iraq is come November. I'm sure the insurgents will do their best to keep it destabilized. For us and for the Iraqis, I hope the transfer goes as smoothly as possible and the new government functions as well as can be expected. God bless anyone who took a position in the government, because they might as well have painted a bullseye on themselves. I just hope that Al Queda doesn't get the idea that the American people are as weak-spined as the Spaniards.
todd
Todd Fatheree flatly states:
I don't doubt that. And I can find 4 more Republicans to fill out the ranks. Except for the imminence of use of WMDs by Saddass, and the existence of masses of WMDs in Iraq. That was a complete fabrication and originally the primary justification for the US getting its tail in the current crack.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
I don't doubt that. And I can find 4 more Republicans to fill out the ranks. Except for the imminence of use of WMDs by Saddass, and the existence of masses of WMDs in Iraq. That was a complete fabrication and originally the primary justification for the US getting its tail in the current crack.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
the
ranks.
masses
primary
Fine Charlie. Here you go. You calling Hillary, Al Gore, John Kerry, and Ted Kennedy liars, too? If you want to counter that all these people are just puppets of the Bush administration, I think I'll have a hard time believing that. The last I checked, there were a whole bunch of Democrats on the various congressional intelligence committees. The *only* thing that has changed between the time these statements were uttered and now is that things in Iraq haven't gone the way we would like. So now, the below seek to gain a political advantage from the situation and try to be on both sides (I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it - John Kerry). If we believed everything below was true at the time, the question is only one of the right response. Bush believed a military response was the way to go and Congress approved it. But again, since things haven't gone as we would have liked, Democrats want to make political hay.
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
todd
Todd Fatheree responds:
The evidence? "Facts" passed on by the various intelligence groups, and misinterpreted by the adminstration.
I'm not going with this any more. You're not going to change my mind that Bush is a straw man, propped up by Cheney and Cheney is one of the bigger thieves in the world. And I don't see a chance of changing your mind.
So any further exchange is pointless.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
The evidence? "Facts" passed on by the various intelligence groups, and misinterpreted by the adminstration.
I'm not going with this any more. You're not going to change my mind that Bush is a straw man, propped up by Cheney and Cheney is one of the bigger thieves in the world. And I don't see a chance of changing your mind.
So any further exchange is pointless.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
aggressively
the
destruction."
that
also
members
warfare,
Saddam
Bush
thieves in
I notice we've gone from "the President lied" to the administration misinterpreting intelligence data. Looks like it was "misinterpreted" by a lot of people on both sides of the aisle. But I guess in your mind, they aren't culpable. I'd say this is a good time for you to bail out, too.
todd
Todd Fatheree snorts:
Well, no. I was being generous, accepting the little Bush's interpretation. If you want the honest truth, I think he lied like a rug and pushed like crazy for the interpretations he got, which he then had presented as the ultimate truth.
Enough.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
Well, no. I was being generous, accepting the little Bush's interpretation. If you want the honest truth, I think he lied like a rug and pushed like crazy for the interpretations he got, which he then had presented as the ultimate truth.
Enough.
Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
On 02 Jun 2004 17:04:42 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:
Bottom line: Dammit! I'm a Democrat! I've been a Democrat all my life! None of the quotes you have posted above showing that *everyone* misinterpreted the available intelligence data is going to make me change my mind that Bush is not a lying sack of crud. I'm a Democrat and I'm not going to change my mind!
Bottom line: Dammit! I'm a Democrat! I've been a Democrat all my life! None of the quotes you have posted above showing that *everyone* misinterpreted the available intelligence data is going to make me change my mind that Bush is not a lying sack of crud. I'm a Democrat and I'm not going to change my mind!
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- - the site's last updated thread. Posted in Garden Forum