Say Good Bye to the Hitachi Name

[Leon]

[Leon]

No, what was that?

I will say that when a new tool came out there would be an introductory discount. I took advantage of that with the Domino. I'm not sure if they still do this or not.

[Leon]

ee to sell the tool at a different price. Today every online seller, and every store in person sells every Festool for the exact same price. No one varies that price by $1 or $10 or $25. All exactly the same. I k now Festool has reduced prices sort of when you combin e a vacuum and big tool. Or a track saw and a track. Price is less than if you bought each item separately . But that is not what I am talking about when I say sale price. And all of these combination prices are t he exact same with every single retailer. No one vari es the bundled price by even $1. All are required, in structed by Festool to sell every single Festool tool at the prescribed MSRP that Festool states. In contra st, do a Google search for a Makita or DeWalt SCMS. Y ou will have 20 Amazon vendors selling the saws for 20 different prices. And clicking on various Google lin ks will turn up 25 other vendors all with different pr ices for the same SCMS. With Festool, every Kapex is sold for the exact same price no matter who or where y ou buy it. No freedom for the vendor to distinguish b ased on price.

I am well aware of that. Rockler us ed to sell Festool, I heard that they discounted the price and Festool pulled the plug. Rockler no long er sells Festool.

And really and truly I prefer fix ed pricing. I appreciate being able to support my l ocal supplier with out having to worry if I could get it for less somewhere else.

e if GM or Ford or Fiat told every car dealer selling their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks f or the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargain ing with customers. If you do then your car dealer lo t will be closed before the sun sets and every car wil l be taken back and you will be sued in court. I'm gu essing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But someh ow its allowed for tools.

Well actually GM Satu rn had fixed pricing. You paid sticker for any new

Saturn. Saturn is gone now and that is a shame, I und erstood that they were probably the better build GM vehicles. Saturn disappeared when GM almost disappe ared 10 years ago. If Saturn was building and selling trucks they would probably still be around today. Small cars are not as profitable as their larger cou sins.

I would imagine that to become a SawStop or F estool dealer you probably sign a contract that says that you will sell at suggested retail pricing or l ose your license to sell their products.

[Leon]

As mentioned on another post, GM's Saturn line of vehicles only sold for sticker. there was no negotiation on the price of the car as built by Saturn. You could negotiate dealer add ons.

DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sells it. It is the oddball out here.

SawStop also has fixed pricing. The other manufacturers allow discount pricing because they want to up the volume of sales. And that typically affects build quality.

Actually I think the company that owns Festool bought SawStop. TTS Tooltechnic Systems

[Leon]

The inventor/developer of the SawStop was a lawyer. I think the monopoly thing is if the dealers agree to fix pricing and that is where there problem comes in. They also probably sign a contract with the manufacturer to sell at suggested retail or loose their license to sell their products.

[Bill]

Or, maybe all it takes is a clause that Festool can rescind your privilege to retail their products at any time, or for any reason.

[krw]

I bought my CT48 on a 20% (IIRC) sale, without buying a tool. At least two of my other tools were on sale. They used to run a sale once a year, or so.

[krw]

Remember Saturn? They tried the one price fits all. There's nothing stopping Ford from doing it, except bankruptcy.

The reason Festool controls price is that it entices their retailers to sell by service, rather than price. It's why I buy from Highland rather than Amazon (or even Woodcraft). Highland does a better job of stocking and selling. OTOH, if I could save a Franklin, I'd likely buy from Amazon, or even eBay.

Others don't *choose* to control their retailers. Festool certainly isn't unique, either.

[krw]

Correct. Both parties agree to the contract. What's the problem?

[Markem]

Having a set retail price also offers the retailer a set margin.

[Bill]

That would make more sense to me if the product was sold online only. Certainly the costs to be retailer in CA differ from those in OH, and the former could probably deal with the higher margins better. Think of the cost of the tool as a percentage of the price of a typical house in an area.

[krw]

OTOH, where housing prices are high, wages tend to also be high. High wages allow high-priced toys so they may sell more.

[Bill]

That's exactly the point I was making. Maybe it would make sense to retail some for less in OH where the cost of conducting business isn't as high... That's sort of the equilibrium for an unregulated market, I think.

[krw]

My point was that there may be a comparable profit between the two. The retailer in the not-so-expensive area can't sell as many units but he doesn't have to. The opposite is also likely. However, there isn't a lot of incentive to sell (buy, really) in the other's territory.

[DerbyDad03]

their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the s ticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your c ar dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be take n back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in the USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools.

ompete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Kia from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe. No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individual price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Po rter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the different vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who sel ls it. It is the oddball out here.

. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company o r product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, cont rolled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They ar e not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell Fes tool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with e veryone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Festo ol. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every sa w they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. O dd that Festool now owns SawStop.

Some folks will drive quite a distance to get a better price, especially if they can combine the trip with other reasons. Trying to set prices in neighboring areas such tha t one area doesn't steal customers from the other can be quite a chore. Try doing that all acr oss the country and not harm any given retailer.

[Bill]

As far as I'm concerned, they can sell them for whatever they want since I'm not in their target audience. I watched some interesting videos on YouTube this week, for car salesman, on "Closing the sale and getting the sticker price". Festool's philosophy appears to be not so much different.

[krw]

Wah! I can't afford Festool! Good grief, they're not comparable at all.

[Bill]

I bought myself a belt/disk sander for Christmas on sale for $80. That's my idea of fun. : ) If it turns out I really use it, I can always upgrade it.

[DerbyDad03]

:

g their brand that they will only sell the cars/trucks for the price on the sticker. No dickering, no bargaining with customers. If you do then your car dealer lot will be closed before the sun sets and every car will be ta ken back and you will be sued in court. I'm guessing this is illegal in th e USA for cars. But somehow its allowed for tools.

compete with each other. Add in Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Hundai, Ki a from Asia. And add in BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo from Europe . No car dealer has a monopoly. But you can and do negotiate an individua l price from every car dealer for every brand. DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable all have different prices for every tool from all the differen t vendors selling these brands. Only Festool has one price no matter who s ells it. It is the oddball out here.

ng. Maybe. But how can Festool control its retailers and no other company or product in the USA can exercise the same control? If Festool owned, co ntrolled everyone who sells its products, then yes they can dictate prices. But all of the vendors for Festool are privately owned businesses. They are not Festool owned sellers, distributors. All of these companies sell F estool and a thousand other items. And I'm sure they compete on price with everyone else on all these other items. I guess SawStop is similar to Fes tool. I think, not positive, that SawStop also dictates a price for every saw they sell and that is the price. No competition for SawStop on price. Odd that Festool now owns SawStop.

Car case: Product has an MSRP on the sticker. The S stands for "suggested". Suggested implies negotiable. A slimy sales dweep talks some poor slug into paying full pric e. The next customer is more savvy than the last. (S)he buys the same car for thousands less.

Festool case: That's the price. Non-negotiable. The salesman says "Would yo u like to buy it?"

How are those things "not so much different"?

[Bill]

The manufacturer is playing the role of the "slimy sales dweep"?