Building Square Walls On New Construction Sill Plates

[Tim Daneliuk]

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction. Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level. Over long runs, they can be off several inches. So, I want to build the wall to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for this so that the top of the wall *is* level. Because of the long horizontal runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to 1/16 or even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).

However, measuring and cutting long studs is slow and not that accurate with just a tape and a chop saw.

My instinct is to mount a laser distance finder on the left side of the chop saw blade aiming the laser to the right (I am right handed) and coming up with some kind of easily clamped/removed target that can be consistently placed on the right hand end of the board. That way, as the board is slid left and right, the laser would record the effective distance from blade to board end.

However, this would require the ability to dial in an offset into the laser distance tool to correct for the distance from the blade to the actual laser tool mount mount. IOW, the tool has to be calibrated for the "real" distance from blade to board end.

Questions:

1) Do distance finders allow offsets like that to be dialed in? 2) Is there a better/faster/smarter way to do this? 3) Is there already a tooling system for just this problem?

P.S. This question is actually on behalf of a friend of mine who is a professional builder. I first suggested mounting a long auxiliary fence on the right side of his chop saw (with proper support) and then sticking on a self-adhesive tape to the top of it. He said he's already doing this but it's too slow for large projects. You have to run back-and-forth from the end of the board to the blade to get it right. In some cases, he's using sticks up to 20' in length so it's a fair walk.

Ideas?

[rbowman]

How warm is it inside? Is is a gas furnace with the pilot light burning? Sometimes that's enough to trip the thermal switch to turn the blower on. If so, turn the pilot off and relight it in the fall.

[Electric Comet]

your solution should be reconsidered as you are only kicking the can down the road

the can is full of worms

in other words make the footings level

[Scott Lurndal]

Knock 'em down and start over.

[-MIKE-]

Maybe I'm not completely understanding what's going on, but let me throw out a suggestion. The current problem is that the foundation wall isn't level and has a uneven, inconstant slope to it. And I assume there is no deck installed or floor poured yet.

Normally what builder would do is build the wall in the horizontal, on the deck/floor, then raise it up into the vertical position. I suggest doing a modified version of this. Use studs all the same length. When you lay out the studs, nail them into the sole/sill plate as you normally would. But instead nailing the top plate to the ends of the studs, flip it down against the sides of the studs about a foot down from the tops of the studs. Put one screw through it into each stud, leaving the tops free. I hope you can picture this.

Once you've done this, you raise the wall into position on the foundation, like normal, and temporarily secure it in place with some long diagonal bracing. What you now have is a stud wall with no top plate, but with the studs held in place with the top plate running along the side of the wall instead of on top.

Now you can mark a level line across all those studs, using whatever method is at your disposal. A laser level, a water level, whatever. All you need is two marks at the correct cut height/length, one at each end of the wall, then you can strike chalk line. If you have a good laser level, you can mark each stud individually. Once you're happy that you have each stud marked, you drop the wall back down and cut the studs at the marks with a circ saw, fasten a top plate, as normal, and raise the wall back up into position.

[dpb]

...

I'm sure there are rangers that do allow for tare but measuring/cutting each stud individually is the hard way to go about it.

Pull a level string on the foundation and measure the distance needed for each stud location to make the level. Lay out the studs on the ground in group and transfer the distance to them. Cut.

[Leon]

Exactly! A professional builder should know better to accept poor workmanship.

[Jerry Osage]

I saw this being done years ago and had to stop and inquire. Due to building codes/restrictions a new foundation would have been new construction, and wasn't allowed. However, using the old foundation made it a renovation/remodel - or some such - and was grand fathered and allowed.

I consider this the best solution available - it works. It is still a real PITA, but not as much as other methods and it is more accurate and faster. Simple, elegant, and a solution that I would not have thought of

- I'm sure that I would have tried to cut each stud individually, but framing is not my forte.

[Clare Snyder]

If the footing isn't level and the foundation isn't level and the sill plate isn't level the floors won't be level either. Level the top of the foundation. If the foundation pour isn't level, fire the cement contactor. If YOU poured the foundation, shame on you. Now you know why you should have hired the job out.

At this point, find the highest point of the foundation and see how much lower the rest of the foundation is and how much is low.

Or find the low point and see how much higher the rest is, and how much of it is higher.

Then determine if you are better to cut/grind the high points, fill in the low points, or use a combination strategy.. Get the sill plates level and square on the foundation BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE.

I'd crib out the top of the foundation with lumber, carefully leveled, and fill it with high strength concrete, mixed with a bit of bondfast, then after stripping the cribbing, lag the sills down

>

[Tim Daneliuk]

Out of my control.

[Tim Daneliuk]

That's a nice theory but the real world does not operate that way.

In this case, the location is very remote and you get what you get.

[Tim Daneliuk]

This is a great approach for the occasional builder but - I fear - far too slow for a professional framer for whom time is money (which is why he brought this to my attention in the first place). In this particular instance, the framer specializes in building large structures in very remote areas. You get what you get in the way of sill plates being level and you have to adjust accordingly ... and rapidly when you're framing hundreds linear feet of wall per project and thousands per year.

[-MIKE-]

If he's a professional framer, then he's already thought of my suggestion. It shouldn't take two framing carpenters any longer to do what I described than it took me to type it. :-) Seriously.

[Tim Daneliuk]

I dunno about that. You have to take it up, tack it in place, measure, take it down, cut, remove the top, and install it. That's a lot of steps.

[DerbyDad03]

evitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level.  Over long run s, they can be off several inches.  So, I want to build the wall to th e sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for

'Splain me something:

Why does the location, near or far, make any difference in how level a pour is? Is it that only crappy contractors will pour in these remote location?

'Splain me something else:

If this "professional framer" runs into this all the time (building large structures in very remote areas is his "specialty", right?) then hasn't he figured out a solution on his own yet?

You make it sound like uneven pours are a common problem in this guy's world, so how is that he is just getting around to asking you to figure out how to do his job?

[whit3rd]

This suggests a tech solution: an automatic stop for the chop saw

You still have to have a measurement for each stud, but the cut-to-length operation is easier, because the length stop is adjusted by the robot.

[Clare Snyder]

No it's not. The "footings" perhaps, but not the top of the foundation where the ledger board or sill sits.

No excuse whatsoever for not levelling the top of the foundation - as previously explained.

[Clare Snyder]

No, when the world gives you lemons, make lemonade. Takes abit of work, but NO EXCUSE for not starting witha levelled foundation.

Cut it, shim it - do whatever is necessary - but build FROM A SQUARE FOUNDATION.

[Clare Snyder]

Which gives you a level roof but still crooked walls.

SHIM THE SILL. Fill with concrete between the sill and the irregular foundation.

or better yet, level the top of the foundation, then lay on the sill.

Level and chalk-line and concrete saw, or crib the top of the foundation and pour a level "cap" on the crooked foundation, or a combination of the two.

Anything else isjust crappy workmanship, however you choose to color it

[Clare Snyder]

really only acceptable if this is a "stick framed foundation" being built directly on a concrete "footer" andthe first floor will be built on top of this "stick framed foundation"

Otherwize getting a straight level floor, and walls that don't look totally "wonky" is pretty well impossible.

It'll look like my kid brother's old place up at Ripley. It looked like it had been built by a bunch of Irishmen and a case of Jamiesons over a long weelend.

Didn't dare wax the floors or it would have been impossible to stay upright walking across the living-room.

[Clare Snyder]

You type like I do, do you??? Hunt and peck like a blind chicken.