On 04/21/2017 11:32 PM, Leon wrote: ...
What (I think?) I've learned is also that those with prepainted in all the class-action lawsuits against Hardie have had early failures in multiple ways including the required/recommended color-matching caulks turn color that don't match, finish coatings are thin and washout quickly and all kinds of tales, even when (purportedly) installed per spec's. I'm thinking I'm staying away from cement fiber based on what I've seen so far...
Well there is always a fly in the ointment. LOL
I replaced the majority of the siding on my precious home with Hardie about 12~17 years ago. It was not preprimed, I was not sure if it was offered by my supplier at that point. Anyway the siding has held up wonderfully and has not yet been repainted. I did preprime and paint.
Fast forward a few years, I built a storage shed in my back yard and used Hardie preprimed. 12 years later the paint is still good.
My current home builder used preprimed Hardie on the exterior where there is no brick and so far so good after just over 6 years.
What does the cost of a painter have to do with the value of my time?
??
Hardie Plank is already primed.
If you are paining it yourself it sets a value on your time, if you hire a painter it is more obvious.
For me, a huge consideration is to deliver a warrantable product. For all t hat you mentioned, I stay away from the prepainted Hardie. I never put any up for >>exactly
On 04/22/2017 12:51 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ... [useful summary of caveats/processes elided solely for brevity]...
Thanks again, good background indeed. I'm surprised the Hardie board is so susceptible to moisture; you'd think given the material it would be much more impervious than seems to be and hence there wouldn't be such issues of causing paint failures.
BTW, was wondering if you tried to view the links I posted earlier below; nobody had commented at all so wondered if were not working or just elicited no response... :)
On 04/21/2017 1:44 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...
Now I need Leon's facility w/ Sketchup to try to make up some plans/drawings! I'm going to have to hire some help as will need more hands to get things closed back in once tear off this porch to get things closed back in more quickly than I can get done alone, so will need some fairly decent drawings instead of just building what I want. :)
My only forays previously haven't been that successful; I somehow never go the hang of it or any other CAD program, either, for that matter--I always had a designer for drawings and they were all mechanical/electrical instrumentation or the like, anyways, so just never developed a facility with any. I hand sketch shop stuff and then mostly just develop the details as build as don't have the issue of building to spec or even the need, generally, to be particularly time-conscious any more for the woodworking end of things...
Pour water on a scrap and stand back to be amazed...
Yup, worked fine! While I didn't reference it, your link was what prompted a post further up the line.
Robert
On 04/22/2017 1:47 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...
...
Ah, ok...
On "the project", it's that entry addition w/ the brick facing that is the prime focus; as is obvious (I think?) it's an old porch that dad just filled in when they redid. It has settled/pulled away from the house significantly and the brick, while has been on there since the early 50s when it was still just screen porch, just "doesn't look right" and there isn't enough footer that it has settled. Didn't help that during the time since the Dirty 30s and again in the 50s it had built up as much as 12-18" of higher level in the yard so that the house was sitting in a hole, in essence. I have drug the yard back down since but where there's a slightly observable larger gap at the south (LH side of the top of the screen door in the picture, that is now some 10-12 yr later >1/2". Surprisingly, the header is still level, the top of the frame appears to have moved south. Also, the brick facade at the NE corner had a gap between it and the wall above at that corner that I stuck a 3/8" ply into before just caulking it up for the winter. Turns out there were a zillion wasps behind there, apparently, and they've been finding their way out thru interior cracks all spring. :( Seem to have finally about got rid of them, though, the numbers are dwindling. Inside, the outer wall has also separated from the floor so there's a gap developing there of 1/8" or so...
That was taken about 6-7 yr after we came back so only that long on the paint; it didn't look too bad, then. I need to take a few more recent to show the present state.
Anyways, it seems to me two choices--
1) just rip out the infill sections while propping up the roof and fill in again squaring stuff up and hope with the regrading that it doesn't settle much more, or2) tear off the whole entrance addition/porch and rebuild from scratch.
I wish I could enlarge it some as it's only 5'9" interior depth, but that means raising the roof line unless drop the floor level as interior ceiling height is only 7' 6" now and there's not enough length in the dining room to extend the table to accommodate the leaves at present w/o moving into the entry way so that's not really feasible. If raise the present roofline, only about 5-6" at most and leave clearance under the
2nd-story windows or get into the previously-mentioned problem of replacing the original leaded glass...On the overall, it's just that I think the 8" siding pattern just also isn't as attractive as would be narrower so I'm seriously considering the reside for the whole thing while we're at it...
Anyways, again thanks for the input--helpful, it was...
Hardie is pretty porous. So it is best to paint all sides. If moisture penetrates from the back side to the back side of the paint the paint will fail.
On 04/22/2017 3:18 PM, Leon wrote: ...
Well, the latter is obvious; the former surprises me to learn--I had assumed given the base material/weight it would be dense-enough to be essentially impervious; hence its advantage. Lacking that, I see little at all to recommend it in lieu of alternatives.
Concrete loves water, but H2O is the univeral solvent.
In hurricane country or where there is driving rain during storms the water can get back behind the panels and another reason that you wrap with a water barrier before hanging the paneling.
But Hardie does not rot nor is it food for insects.
According to the Hardie site, the flashing can be just a piece of house wrap. They describe how to saw off the end of a roll so you have essentially a TP roll the right width for the joint. I've also seen aluminum widgets for this but even on Amazon, they want over $2 each for them. Yikes!
Paint shouldn't be that bad, these days. THe problem I see is fading, which shouldn't be a problem if just "running out". I've touched up interior wall with paint bough several years later. It looks like hell until it's dry than I couldn't see where I stopped. Tile (doesn't matter what type) is a PITA because you even the size differs by lots.
As I said earlier, I have to replace six or seven squares over the next few weeks. I'm considering the painted boards because it may be a while before I can get it all up and you folks have me worried about water. I'll still have to paint it to get it closer to the rest of the house (though the other Hardie sided sides can't be seen at the same time, at least by anyone other than the deer).
That said, I was looking at the boards at Lowes today. The aren't primed on the back so water could easily penetrate the fiber. Will water be a problem after it's hung, perhaps before the job is complete? I'll probably store it in the garage and let my truck sleep outside for a while.
What do you do with them after you've rolled them? THat's a lot of boards to lay around. I did it with the cedar I used on my VT house, so I could get the backs primed but it was a PITA.
I really appreciate your help. It's awesome and at exactly the right time for me. Thanks!
OK, but it's really the other way around. I have a price on my time and if the painter is cheaper, it makes sense to use the painter. In this case, it's a small job (6-7 squares 1 to 1-1/2 stories) and I doubt any painter would bother.
That will do it. We store Hardie on the job with a large Harbor Freight ta rp over it if we are looking for rain. Cementitious board isn't a water ma gnet, so just being outside won't hurt it. Drizzle won't hurt it, a sprink le or two won't hurt it. Rain will ruin it as it can cause it to effloresc e. If you see this on ANY of the product, don't buy it from that yard:
Regardless, with primer only you can paint with confidence if you have warm , dry weather for 30 days after you hang it when it has been wet. The same porosity that causes absorption allows it to dry out well. As a matter of fact, if I install during our more iffy weather season, I put it up, wait two week/ten days then paint knowing it could have caught some water at the material yard.
for use later in the day or at least by the next day. I can put a helper o n a 6 inch roller with a five of paint and he is a busy boy, but a helper c an now pre-finish your siding on the ground. Scuffs and touch ups will mat ch as you are using the exact finish you applied, and your nailer/installer can do his own touch up before moving a ladder if it is more convenient.
I can be, but I only prime for a day or two in advance. We set up and paint first thing in the morning, and the material is so porous that it is dry i n a couple of hours. Careful management of time and materials lets us pain t at the end of the day to get started first thing in the morning, then pai nt again that morning for early afternoon, then again at the end of the day . It sounds like a lot of movement, but not really. I have a lot of cheap sawhorses that I have just to keep material off the ground. I take the lo west paid guy I have to paint one side only (I don't prime the back) on the se, then transfer to screeds on a driveway, patio or deck. I "sticker" in between layers as soon as possible and store the painted product where I ca n. One laborer can easily keep up with two installers.
One last thought on the butt joints. I don't use flexible materials like v inyl, siding wrap, 30# felt, etc. I find the absolutely thinnest aluminum coil stock I can find to flash. Lowe's has some coil stock on occasion tha t is nearly as thin as heavy duty tin foil and it works great. If it is 8" stock, I cut my pieces 6" long and have my flashing pieces. (As a tip, if you use aluminum this thin you can cut it with a box cutter/utility knife a nd a speed square!) Whatever you use, make sure it is thin enough to allow the siding over the joint to rest easily on the joint/flashing. Here it is in 10":
It is bigger than you need, but even using that size your cost to flash is only .25 cents! (50 feet cut into 6" by 10" strips = 100 pcs. ) Get fanc y and buy a $5 can of Krylon spray in the approximate color of your siding and spray a stripe of paint down the middle of your flashing. That way whe n the siding shrinks a bit you won't see a sliver of unpainted metal from t ime to time at your butts. One can will probably do your whole project.
Stay away from galvanized product to flash. The cement in the board will s et up an electrolytic process that will cause rust and the above mentioned efflorescence.
To see how to do a proper butt joint, check this guy out. He (no pun inten ded...) nails it perfectly, except for the fact he uses galvanized steel. You can also see that it is stiff enough to mess up the piece that lays ove r the butt, too. Important to note that while me didn't use a nail and rel ied on friction to hold the metal in place, the next course wound up with a nail in the flashing to make sure it stayed in place.
My pleasure. This thread reminds me when this group was mostly about woodw orking. I was kind of feeling your possible pain when I saw the size of yo ur project. That's simply too big to have any problems.
I do hope you post some "work in progress" pics, no matter what siding you use.
Robert
Rain is a given this time of year. When you say that rain will ruin it, do you mean if it's submerged or if it just gets (good and) wet? If it's hanging on the wall, will a good rain ruin it?
30 days is a rather long dry spell to arrange. ;-)It would be nice to have a helper but this is a solo project.
That's sorta what I was thinking. I had some step flashing from moons ago but I'm pretty sure I pitched it in the last move.
Another excellent idea. The $1 per piece flashing looked to be a piece of step flashing with maybe an 1/8" right angle bend in one end. The flashing was hung on the edge on the upper board and held on by the lower. Nice idea but $1 a piece?
Yeah. Any sort of steel seems to be a bad idea. Aluminum isn't that expensive. I intend to use stainless nails, so a few bucks for aluminum flashing seems like cheap insurance.
Am I missing a link?
It's not that big. I've done that much cedar, though I was a few years younger. ;-)
Sure, I'll try to remember.
--Keith
No. If it is hung on the wall with rain draining off it, you can paint it after about 10 days of drying if completely soaked. But if just a good spri nkle, usually when it looks dry it is ready to go.
I was trying to hit the point that the lumberyards/suppliers stack it horiz ontally in open weather most of the time, and when rained on repeatedly, it can sustain irreparable damage.
arm, dry weather for 30 days after you hang it when it has been wet. The s ame porosity that causes absorption allows it to dry out well. As a matter of fact, if I install during our more iffy weather season, I put it up, wa it two week/ten days then paint knowing it could have caught some water at the material yard.
Depending on the time of year, here, too.
Then if that was me, I would separate the tasks depending on the availabili ty of room. I would paint as much as possible as the cleanup time required (dictated on the material painted)for the rollers, brushes, paint stirrer (mine is always on a drill), etc., takes much longer than simply pulling in the compressor and rolling up the cords at the end if the day. I wouldn't want to clean paint equipment more than twice a day.
If you are hanging the long pieces by yourself, make a "J" shaped hanger to attach to the farthest stud you siding will reach to hold the other side o f the material until you work your way to it. If you make it right, you ca n screw it to the stud at the joint, then when you are about 4' away, you c an swivel it on the screw to swing it out of your way before you nail.
tended...) nails it perfectly, except for the fact he uses galvanized steel . You can also see that it is stiff enough to mess up the piece that lays over the butt, too. Important to note that while me didn't use a nail and relied on friction to hold the metal in place, the next course wound up wit h a nail in the flashing to make sure it stayed in place.
Ooops....
I still can't believe he uses galvanized metal, for all the reasons describ ed above. Technique, great. Materials used, fail.
I do a lot of physical labor during my normal course of work from time to t ime, and my goodness... what a difference 40 years makes on the old frame.
Hope so! A smaller amount of siding than your project, say an entryway or storage room is a doable project for some handy guys and DIY folks. Picture s of your work might be worth a thousand explanations, even if there are fe w replies.
Robert
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