In article , snipped-for-privacy@mybluelight.com (Chris) wrote: [snip]
But that's _exactly_ what $aw$top has petitioned the CPSC to do: pass a law that, in effect, requires consumers to use their product.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
In article , "Leon" wrote: [snip]
Yet you're quite content to allow government intervention to make that decision for the rest of us.
Hypocrite.
Bullshit.
If you were truly looking out for yourself, you'd have a $aw$top tablesaw already. You just want to force your opinions on everyone else.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
You don't know WTF you're talking about.
I haven't driven a stickshift car yet, that I couldn't push well past the redline.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
So buy the damned saw, if you think it's so important. Just don't force the rest of us to buy something we don't want.
Hypocrite.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
Yep - the exact same response I got. I wrote back and told them I could recognize self-serving bullshit when I saw it.
"Leon" wrote in news:uLdPa.219$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com:
Then go buy the saw and SHUT THE H___ UP!
Sam,
Did you read the "performance specification" that was submitted? It states a number of requirements which are clearly tailored to a specific implementation - the very same implementation that is patented by those submitting the petition. If the petition were more broadly worded, then I'd agree with you. But it isn't and therefore people are crying foul.
-Jack
Jesus Leon, this isn't about safety, it's about the company and potentially the government telling you how YOU can use YOUR tablesaw in YOUR house. You may be OK with this, but I'm not. It's got nothing to do with safety. I'm responsible for me. You're responsible for you. You can shake your head at me all you want to if I'm not acting in a safe manner but nothing....nothing gives YOU the right to tell me how I should act. Same goes for this Sawstop company...
When Sawstop first came out with the product most people in this group did a collective "wow!!". Everyone wanted to learn more and most thought it was a great idea. I was included in that group and I'm STILL included in that group. I think that the Sawstop on the market today is an early version of what could become a really good addition to my table saw allowing it to be a safer tool. The key here, is that it's MY choice, not yours (or the governments) to use it.
Side note. In Britain, dado blades are illegal. Why? Because the Government decided they were too dangerous and the WW community didn;t stand up and say "take a hike". You may want to live in that sort of society but not me Leon...not me.
Rob
I view things like blade guards and SawStop in the same category as insurance. They provide a protection that it is almost foolish to live without. But you can get various levels of coverage. The SawStop device is a bit like carrying full accident coverage on your car with no deductible. Personally I decide what level of risk I am willing to assume and adjust my actions accordingly.
I'll stick with my regular guard and reasonable caution, that's a level of risk I am willing to assume at a cost I am willing to pay.
Tim Douglass
it's already available. do you have one already? if not, then you're a hypocrite. you're waiting for it to become mandatory first? then your argument doesn't make sense.
rev limiter. it's there a bit past redline to protect the engine from floating your valves, or blowing up the engine. you can program the ecm to move the cutout point around some, but it's not recommended for obvious reasons. it doesn't really work on ground speed.
the OP is talking about speed governors. they also exist, large fleets and people with teenagers tend to use them more often than the general public.
regards, charlie cave creek, az
No, I would be a hypocrite if I past on getting one on my next saw or passed on a retrofit. I am not in the market for a new saw right now. If however I could adapt my saw for 3 or 4 hundred dollars today, I would do that.
Saw Stop appears to want to
Yes, and no. The product has been developed, and the company has been taking reservations for their own brand of saws for some time. But I'm not aware that they're actually shipping anything.
Now, if they could come up with a way to retrofit the darned thing, they'd obviously have a much broader market.
SawStop sees a market for their product, but the manufacturers aren't willing to adopt it on their own. As I stated in another post, there may be reluctance on the manufacturers' parts to voluntarily add better safety equipment, due to increased lawsuits filed by people who were injured using (or not using) the old safety equipment.
Must be more than "a bit past redline" based on my experience. :-) But Leon contended that cars have limiters which prevent "going past the redline" and that _just_ain't_so_. Not in any car I've ever driven.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
potentially
nothing....nothing
Wellll gollee Rob,
I thought it was about safety, my safety to be precise... And, you don't have to be OK with it. Its a free country, feel the way you like. In this case I think it is the right thing to do. And, act the way you want, that does not bother me. The way you think doe not bother me at all. You are entitled to your thoughts the same as I am.
I remember most every one knocking it because they felt it would instill a false sense of security, which it may.
I was included in that group and I'm STILL included in that
Never have I ever indicated that you should buy a TS with this product. You should not have to buy anything if you dont want.... but if the only way to get a TS is with the extra safe guard, you very well may have a decision to make. Get one with this feature or get a used one. It's your choice and no one is forcing you to buy either one.
And yet you probably drive a car with government mandated air bags and seat belts and you even probably have a law requiring you to wear the seat belts.............hummm This really is no different.
My point is, I want one on my next saw, right now I am not in the market for a saw. My next saw will have it if they are still available. If the government mandates a safety device of this kind, I will not have to worry about IF the product will be available when and if I do purchase another saw. If the government does not mandate this then I very well may miss out on the opportunity along with most every one else.
Sounds like you're one of the many who believe they're so careful, so in control of their actions at the table saw that they'll never, ever, ever be injured. You know, if you talk to people who've been injured, you may find that they all thought they had taken the necessary safety precautions and were paying attention to what they were doing.
None - OK, maybe there a few sado-masichistic people out there, so let's call it 0.00000001% - of people injured on table saws intended to injure themselves. A system like this is intended to protect people from involuntary injuries.
But I thought you were concerned for your safety, Leon. If you're really as concerned as you claim to be, sell your current saw and buy a $aw$top immediately.
If you buy it now, you won't have to worry about future availability, either.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
I'd say this discussion is not about safety. It is about the business tactics of SawStop. One of their tactics is to show gory pictures of fingers which have been chopped off. One of their tactics is to say "if you are against this you are against safety". One of their tactics is to petition the government to get their proprietary product mandated so that they can sell it. I find this approach manipulative, offensive, anti-competitive and generally sleazy.
Leon, you seem to keep insisting that this regulation is necessary in order to bring the product to market? Why is this the case? Can't they sell it without someone MAKING you buy it?
Leon, safety sells. How many million$ were spent producing advertisements that you have seen showing side airbags and other automotive safety features? How many soccer moms bought volvos based on their reputation for safety? I know many many people who have taken crashworthiness as one of the prime criteria in selecting a new car. People will pay a premium for an automobile which is safer. That SawStop can not capitalize on people's demand for safe products and must have their product mandated by the government is an indication that their product is unwanted at the current price. Perhaps they could try to make it better and cheaper so that people will actually demand it instead of trying to ensure a monopoly through regulation? Build a better mousetrap and all that...
-Jack
Well Bob, you have a point and I respect your point. You are the first that has been able to convence me that perhaps I am looking a little too strongly in my on favor. In this case, I hope that when and if I am in the market for this product, it is available and at that point, I will hope it is around by what ever means.
I again am not trying to force my openions on any one. I am mearely stating my openion just like every one else. I have taken no steps to encourage the governmant to become involved.
As far a being a hypocrit... Perhaps if I signed a petition for the backing of the government to become involved, and then tried to buy a TS with out the feature through another country. But, untill I actually take action other than to simply voice my desires and or openion I have every right to say what I want. Right or wrong.
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