Re: Maybe We're Getting Through

It sound to me like the ISP is punishing all because of the actions of a few. Too bad they just didn't cancel the offending account. How would you feel if "WebTV" decided to block rec.woodworking?

-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

I have complained to the proper "abuse" channels and have gotten quite a few banned from the newsgroup. Of course some might now be posting under different names, but at least some may have learned not to post to this group. If nothing else, JOAT has been under way too much abuse, and whatever we can do to get rid of these a--holes is worth it. I would implore anybody seeing these kind of posts, to send an email to the proper abuse email address.

Earlier today, I got this message back, from the mail forwarder I had forwarded a troll post to, and complained about:

rec.woodworking has been temporarily blocked

Maybe they're tired of getting complaints, or maybe they're just trying to be good people. Whatever.

So, you guys that want to killfile 'em, then ignore them, how about reporting them first? Then if it doesn't work, they'll still be killfiled.

JOAT You have two choices in life: You can dissolve into the mainstream, or you can be distinct. To be distinct is to be different. To be different, you must strive to be what no one else but you can be.

- Alan Ashley-Pitt

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 19 Jan 2004. Some tunes I like.

I believe he may be talking about an anonymous email remailer, not an ISP.

There's a huge difference.

Barry

They're suffering a similar plight over at the BBQ newsgroup as well. I think we're better off, lately.

-JBB

I did exactly that today to "anonymous sender" post ... took all of 30 seconds. Don't know whether it will do any good, but for the time it takes it was worth a shot. Not at all hard to notice that all the little yuppie puppies are finally back at college this week.

I make it a habit, no make that an obsession, to route-trace and report every spammer than infiltrates my email account. And I report the more flagrant violations of newsgroups as well. Most ISP's send an auto-response claiming to investigate every violation, but seldom is anything actually done. RoadRunner and Earthlink are the worst US companies for actually *doing* anything, and Shaw.CA and BlueYonder.UK are the best. And you can forget about getting ANY action from Chinese or Korean ISPs. Most anon-remailers won't take any action unless a VERY serious violation of law.

FWIW,

Greg G.

Report them to who, and for violating what rule or law?

What it really comes down to is that there are two types of people in this world, yes another two types. Those who see something wrong and try to change it, and those who see something wrong and ignore it. Anybody who knows me will tell you where I land in this one. One moment whilst I find my valiant steed. %-) Dave in Fairfax

spamming and abusive posting is against all ISPs Terms of Service. It may not be against remailers TOS though. As for to whom, get a copy of Sam Spade and turn your view of headers to "All". Tehre is a place in the header (Yours) that says: X-Complaints-To: snipped-for-privacy@abs.net, there is also a line that tells how it was posted (yours) NNTP-Posting-Host:

But who decides it's wrong?

For example, I could see the OP simply as a complainer, and to me, honestly that is a troll as well. Do I have the right to shut him up simply because I see no value in a post that does nothing but complain?

On another note, your quote above is poetic, and I'm sure you use it to justify other things you do, but holds no water for me.

If you want to right wrongs, stop reading the usenet groups and go build homes in the 3rd world, go teach illiterates, go fight slavery, or join the peace corps or the UN to combat the various massacres and genocides occurring in the world. Join the fight against female circumsicion.

Clothing yourself in a white cape while saying "I see something wrong and try to change it" is a nice tool to attempt to justify bahviors (such as censorship in this case), but really.... Who are you fooling?

Oh, I understand. I just see it more of a self-gratification thing than a "save the world" thing. I understand totally.

in fact have reported such myself many times. But JOAT said trolling and much trolling just does not fall into the abusive category. While I may not care for most trolling I see, this is after all usenet, and if it is not abusive, spam, slanderous, libellous, etc, what is the violation? I think you are correct that all ISPs TOS prohibit abuse in many different forms, but "trolling"?

snip post about the ins and outs of reporting trolls....

prograsmming? is that where you really get off on the code you write?

: ^)

Bridger

This is something everybody has to do on their own. If you can't or won't make the decision, that is your choice as well.

That would be your decision.

I'll tell my wife that you find me poetic, she'll be amused,but thank you for the compliment.

I work in a community hospital working on people who can't or won't pay their bills or change their behaviors. I make far less than I could working ofr a for-profit organization, and I've worked to make this a better world, one way or another for most of my life. I've routinely put myself in harm's way for strangers, most of whom never new my name or said thank you. I have scars all over my body from people who thought that trying to hurt of kill me would make me back down, some are in jail, some are dead, I remain. I am trying to fix the world that is local to me, if everryone worked locally, global problems would be fixed automatically. I fight child and sposal abuse on a nearly daily basis. My fight has been going on since the early 60's. When did you develop a need to fight global oppression?

Since I have scars from a disagreement with the Klan, this is an amusing question. I'm not fooling anyone. If you knew me you'd know that I don't bother trying to fool anyone, and only suffer fools under duress.

Dave in Fairfax

It's possible that I misunderstood JOAT, but from the abuse I've seen him take over the last year or so, I'd bet that when he said Troll, he was really referring to was the obscene posting, not some of the amusing attempts to stir up a thread over nothing. I could be wrong, it's happened before, perhaps what we need is a clarification from JOAT on what he was thinking of. Regardless the method I described is useful for those who don't know how to do it but might want to. Dave in fairfax

No, he doesn't "have it coming." Not that. Nobody is deserving of such vile abuse as was directed at JOAT last summer and fall. Check Google and see what sort of garbage he had to put up with. As annoying as BAD often is, he still doesn't deserve to be subjected to that sort of trash.

But Dave really isn't that annoying to everyone.

If you put any 20 random people from this or any other group together, somebody will find somebody else annoying. Chances are, somebody else will enjoy that person's company.

I'll bet Dave posts a lot of mistakes and questions, as part of HIS learning process that help an awful lot of people, many who are too embarrassed to share the mistake or ask the same question.

Barry

And he puts up with a pile of crap from a lot of people without being nasty about it. he says some stupid things aometimes, but there aren't alot of people her with clean hands. How's about the spammer standing up, I've got a .30-.30 I need to sight in.

Dave in Fairfax

As I did today regarding a not-so-simple in basket for my desk... :) I think I'm a PRE-newbie woodworker...

dave

B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote: