RE: InternetLumber.com

[Mike in Arkansas]

I recently submitted a post inquiring about InternetLumber.com and if anyone had experience with them. I promised to post my results of ordering 100 BF of quarter sawn white oak. The wood arrived yesterday within their advertised alloted times. Since I have no previous experience ordering wood or buying 'fancy' wood, I can't speak for the quality. I ordered and received it S3S. I measured each board and it it came to about 93 BF. I expected BF loss during the S3S process. I got one real nice 11 inch wide board, one 9 and one 7.5 inch. The rest vary from 3 to 5.75 inches and there is a total of 24 boards all between 9 and 10 feet long. Quality was advertised as FAS. There are no large knots or other blimishes and only a few small blimishes. A couple of the boards are bowed to the point that the SLR did not traverse the entire length, leaving two unfinished edges on about 1/3 of the boards. But like I said I have no experience and receiving some boards like that may be a normal part of the process from anywhere. The price was competitive. They were supposed to ship to a terminal but they shipped to my home instead. I emailed them shipping instructions, the order form that came with the lumber had that information correct but it was still shipped to my home and I was charged for home delivery. I can live with it. I relied on email and phoning might have worked out better for ordering and relaying instructions. In short, I'm happy that I received the lumber timely and that it seems suitable for my project of doors and drawer faces for my kitchen cabinets.

[arw01]

Mike:

What is your all in cost per board foot?

Did the order arrive on a pallet, or was it one long, heavy package?

Alan

[Mike in Arkansas]

Hi Alan. The final cost per BF was $6.19 and broke down as: $4.29 rough cost plus $.30 for S3S plus $1.60 shipping. If the lumber had been properly shipped to a terminal cost would have been about $.50 per BF less. The closest I could have purchased it personally involved a

300 mile round trip and a rough cost of $5.17 a BF with no planning or SLR option available. Taxes would have added about $40.00 and gasoline about $35.00 so the costs ended up about even so I was pleased with the cost. It was delivered on a pallet and I help unload it after it was unbanded. Mike

[John L. Poole]

They should pay the difference between home delivery and terminal delivery, especially since you had it in writing and it's clear it was their error.

Immediately ask for refund of such amount and post what their response is.

[janahartzell]

When I ship lumber via motor freight the only way I can avoid a home delivery is to have it shipped to a business. Pretty much any business will fly. There aren't terminals available for shipment of partial loads like this. I agree that the company should have made you aware of this. Jana

[Ross Hebeisen]

not that it makes a huge differance if your ripping the stuff up for styles and rails, but the claim of being F.A.S (which would reflect in price) is untrue claim if there is wood less than 6" wide as the best grade a 4" board can make is a select according to NHLA rules. national hardwood lumber ass'n. best regards ross

[jo4hn]

I bought 200 bf of white oak (rift sawn, no blems) from Jana at

Cost $2 a bf and another $2 a bf for shipping to my house (yeah, I live in the sticks). I can recommend them highly. mahalo, jo4hn ps Hi Jana How are you all doing?

[Mark & Juanita]

I've had several "partial load" shipments that I have picked up at the terminal. This includes two machinery shipments and one lumber shipment. Most recent was just over a month ago.

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[janahartzell]

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correctly, you live in Az and are probably close to terminals. For the most part, it's just not done that way. I wish it was and I was. From Iowa, one company will take it part way and then it gets transferred to another. It then goes straight to the customer. The business drop is about the best I can come up with. I can honestly say that shipping companies profit more from our internet end of the business than we do. Residential delivery charge alone has gone up to a flat $95 and the fuel surcharges have steadily increased even if diesel goes down. We've had to resort to, whenever possible, combining orders in areas and hiring our own driver but that doesn't always work for the customer's time schedule. If anyone has any better ideas or experience on how to get lumber shipped cheap, I'd be very appreciative. Thanks, Jana

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[John L. Poole]

Hmm... this becomes intriguing...

The original post indicated "100 BF of quarter sawn white oak" "Quality was advertised as FAS."

Some terms: FAS = First and Seconds. NHLA = National Hardwood Lumber Association.

= National Wood Flooring Association From page 16 of the current Rulebook: FAS 53. Widths: 6" and wider. 54. Lengths: 8' to 16'.

Then there is the section of "STANDARD INSPECTION BY SPECIES" which contains on page 31 "Quarter Sawn Red Oak, White Oak, and Locust" and notes:

FAS: Standard, except: Widths 5" and wider; pieces 5" wide containing 3' and 4' surface measure shall be clear, pieces 5" wide containing 5' to 7' surface measure shall yield 11/12 (91-2/3%) clear face in one cutting.

So, is it correct that any boards less than 5" width for quarter sawn oak are not FAS grade? Is there some other exception that would otherwise make the shipment conforming to FAS?

I visited InternetLumber.com hoping to find an email so I could "cc" them for comment and I noticed that they state they are a member of the National Wood Flooring Association ("NWFA"). I visited NWFA's site hoping to find any grading specification, but was unable to locate such. I wondered if the discrepancy above is a result of different standards: NHLA vs. NWFA.

Note to "Mike in Arkansas" - how may boards where under 5" and what percentage of net 93 board feet did they constitute?

[Mark & Juanita]

correctly, you live in Az and are probably close to terminals. For the most part, it's just not done that way. I wish it was and I was. From Iowa, one company will take it part way and then it gets transferred to another. It then goes straight to the customer. The business drop is about the best I can come up with. I can honestly say that shipping companies profit more from our internet end of the business than we do. Residential delivery charge alone has gone up to a flat $95 and the fuel surcharges have steadily increased even if diesel goes down. We've had to resort to, whenever possible, combining orders in areas and hiring our own driver but that doesn't always work for the customer's time schedule. If anyone has any better ideas or experience on how to get lumber shipped cheap, I'd be very appreciative. Thanks, Jana

Jana,

I wasn't attempting to quibble, but pointing out my recent experience. I do live close to a couple of terminals here in Tucson, but noone ever indicated that my proximity to the truck terminals was the reason I could pick up the shipments from the terminal rather than scheduling home delivery. The most recent delivery was from UPS Freight (from a truck company recently bought by UPS). I think the other shipper was Northern Freight, but I can't put my fingers on the records. The trucking companies actually indicated that they preferred people to pick up from the terminal rather than scheduling home delivery.

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[Ross Hebeisen]

because sawmills are primary manufacturers and the lumber coming off them is graded according to NHLA rules, and flooring makers are secondary processers, they are subject to buying their lumber on those standards. if the flooring people have their own grade it would be on their finish product not the raw material. make sense? clear as mud right? Ross

[janahartzell]

Hi Mark, No, I didn't take it like that. In short, I just meant to say that you're one of the lucky ones to have access to a terminal. I'll have to check on the UPS motor freight company. That would be great since they do have terminals almost everywhere. Thank you for the info. Jana

[Mike in Arkansas]

[John L. Poole]

I visited InternetLumber.com and submitting the following using their Contact Form: vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv A recent customer of yours posted his experience purchasing lumber from you. I tried to submit the header to the posting in this form, but it triggered an error by your form processor so I am resubmitting my inquiry without including the header. The posting may be found on rec.woodworking, dated 9/16/2006 with the subject line "Re: InternetLumber.com"

Would you please comment; you will see I replied to his posting twice and I amd contacting you as I would like to know why there appears to be a discrepancy between the grade advertised and the grade delivered. I fear I am missing something or the facts are not accurate. I encourage you to respond, either by reply and/or posting to the newsgroup for the matter now stands raising some serious questions.

Thank you.

John Poole ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Ross Hebeisen]

To John Poole i have many times been amazed at how little lumber people know about lumber, the same with loggers really knowing anything about logs. they just cut'm down cut'm up and haul'm to da mill. Best Regards Ross

[John]

Hey Ross, how is it you cut a tree DOWN and then cut it UP?

[Ross Hebeisen]

cut it up would be to cut logs to length from the total tree. the actual term used is bucking up logs. ross

[sales]

Dear Mike,

My name is Simon Briggs and I am the General Manager of InternetLumber, another group reader alerted me to this post and some of the questions you raised here. I would encourage you to call me if my response below does not clarify your questions.

To clarify the grade it is FAS, as noted elsewhere on this posting grading rules for quartersawn are more relaxed when it comes to width, due to the ineffeceincy of the quartersawing process vs. plain/flat sawing. Width requirements are based on the rough lumber so as you noted the overall average is lower after straight line ripping. Based on the widths you listed it appears you have one or two questionable boards specifically the 3-3/4" Net board. If you would like to return this lumber for an exchange to equivalent board footage in a wider board please contact our office and we will be happy to assist you.

For the residential delivery issue I apologize for any misunderstanding with my staff, they will research the issue and if you were charged for residential delivery after requesting otherwise we will refund the difference immediately. It would help if you could call or email me your full name since I am not exactly sure who you are. My email is simon (at) internetlumber (dot) com.

Thank you, Simon InternetLumber.com

336-499-0392 877-769-5747

Mike > I recently submitted a post inquiring about InternetLumber.com and if