On 15 Mar 2005 23:58:09 -0800, the inscrutable "Andrew P"
You've got balls, Andrew. It takes many hours to produce anything
-close- to a finished mold, and to ask for it IN 3 DAYS and for only
$100 is a real insult to any self-respecting mold or patternmaker or
Try http://www.emachineshop.com/ . You won't be getting it this week,
but it might be closer to the paltry fee you offered.
100:1 they recommend another material. 1/8" thick walls in MDF aren't
Yea, though I walk through the valley of Minwax, I shall stain no Cherry.
...you beat me to it, Larry...
and you are right about the 1/8" MDF partitions/walls..you'd never get
them to survive during the fabrication of the mold.... much less pulling
off a piece of vacuum formed plastic.
That mold s a job for aluminum, IMHO.
I was going to make a smart-ass remark -- but canned the post. Larry was
at least polite -- unlike my first instinct...
If someone had CNC machinery and was geared up for small jobs -- and had
done something almost identical -- maybe.
I find it usually takes an hour just to "understand" a small job
completely -- and there goes the $100. Unless of course you are willing
to do a job over and over and over -- till you discover what the client
And MDF? I thought metal would be better as well.
These jobs always look simple -- sometimes they even are simple --
sometimes they are anything but simple -- most of the times there are
Nice to see that it wasn't only me that thought it an "odd" post. Spec
is actually convoluted as well.
One other thing. It reminds me of many books I have seen where a
"sketch" is passed off as a plan. And of course there have been more
than a few customers that have given me plans at least as good as this
Notice one other thing.... Over the years I have had many clients admit
that they know nothing about engineering and software dictate the tools
and methods to use for the job. In a way it is almost nice to know that
this silliness isn't restricted to one field.
Got no tools - can't do the work - can't create a plan - yet tells one
how to build it. Cute!
Been there done that -- no more please.
Hardwood? -- maybe a very dense strong hardwood! - Compound angles for
$100 har har har. Better get some (acetone free) Gorilla glue and a few
pounds of railroad spikes to hold it together though.
Even someone with a milling machine better note that the plan is not a
plan and had better be able to create one and form it pretty quick -- or
have a template -- otherwise you will be paying $100 to do the job.
Come back with $500 -- as a starting offer.
Guess I was rude -- wasn't I?
Uhh...fast and cheap? You act like that isn't an option. Apparently
my post got interpreted as: "Need High Tolerence Rocket Nozzle milled
from Kryptonite for $100." eMachineShop will mill it for $180 out of
T6 (shipped), and $140 out of mdf. And yeah...if you had a cnc in your
shop and wanted to kick something out for some extra cash so be it. If
you don't - why waste the time posting? If all of your guys' time is
worth so much why are you even replying to the post? Get over it. I
even suggested the exact model router bit - and would buy it for you to
keep, and pay in advance. And for the price of 1/10th of your entire
monthly cnc lease payment...can you really complain? If you want me to
bang it out in solidworks I guess I could...but is it really worthy?
I'm molding a prototype out of .015 hips...And at 1/2" the walls would
hold up fine. And yes...I have to drill the ports in the cativies
myself...ok thanks anyway sorry for disturbing your newsgroup.
It would have helped a whole lot had you been more specific in your
original request. Words like 'vacuum-forming molds' and 'non-production
proto-type' have a completely different meaning with this crowd. The
difference in approach is astounding.
You knew what you meant....we didn't.
Communications, my friend.
When a customer of yours says "pickle on the side", you may know if
he/she wants that pickle on the plate or beside plate....left side or
right side....the side of the house... the side of error?
I have seen a lot of people in this group go out of their way to help
others but when you trivialize their effort by putting a monetary value
on that effort, without having any idea what that value is, you can get
an adverse reaction if that number doesn't compute with any of us.
So, instead of laying a trip on anybody, go and buy what you need, learn
the processes involved (keep track of your hours, including that trip to
the Borg for that $97.00 router) get the MDF, router bit, make a jig,
guidebushings, make a few mistakes, clean up after yourself and get back
to us when you're all done.
A(n) $18.00 1/4" shank routerbit (Amana 45780) is hardly a lure either.
Oh...and how I spend my time on the computer doesn't concern you..it is
part of my anger management therapy.
Slowwwww down Rob. Yer gonna bust a blood vessel and then yer gonna get
blood on that piece of cherry which will put you in disfavor with the wood
gods and everyone here for staining cherry, and to top it all off, yer gonna
have to clean up the mess with acetone! Really - I'd cut him a little slack
here. Looks like the production rate for this stuff is around $140 from his
posted research. I don't think he's so far out of line by reaching out to
what is a hobby newsgroup and asking if anyone is interested in doing this
for $100 plus the benefit of the bit. That really puts the pay up around
the rates the shops had quoted him. Not so bad for a hobby type with the
interest in taking in on. I know that it does not have the same appeal to
the guys here who do run production shops, but my point is that he brought
it to what is essentially a hobby group and made a reasonable offer.
That's really why most people pay someone else to do the work. They don't
want to or can't invest in the time to do that. It's really not that wrong
of this fellow to solicit a $140 professionally quoted job from a hobby
group to be done for ~$120. Though, I'd have to wonder why bother for what
appears to be only a $20 savings? But, that'd be a different conversation.
I have to admit that I think the responses by and large were a bit less than
accomodating. I understand why a production shop would not want to fart
around with something like this and can't blame them one bit for considering
something like this to be a bigger pain than it's worth, but the group
responses seemed to relay that with a vigor. Unless I misunderstood
something, at least two production shops quoted pricing that made his offer
to this group seem to be not so out of line. Again - considering that the
initial appeal was made to what is essentially a hobby group.
When I read the initial post I wasn't the least bit interested. I still
have to get this thing out of my garage that is taking up sawdust space (the
never ending project car) and I can't even think about any woodworking until
that's done. Even then, I wouldn't be interested in this type of thing.
But... I did see where there could be some guys with a router who might just
be interested in taking on a small project like this in the name of their
first commissioned project. We see plenty of that kind of stuff here. Odd
ball projects that a fellow does for a neighbor, or a church, or whatever.
For that guy, a hundred bucks plus a router bit that he may never use again
could very conceivably be an attractive offer in exchange for a few hours of
his time and the sense of accomplishment he gets out of being contracted to
do a job. Admitedly, that is the only sort of guy that I anticipated would
be interested in this, but then again if the OP found just one guy like that
here, he was golden and so was the fellow who took the work.
Ahem... ummmm... Rob... yer getting confused again. It's the binary groups
that are supposed to be part of the anger management therapy...
Oh, I always have a spray bottle of acetone handy.
I open a blast gate, turn on the DC, and spray directly into the suction
flow. I do that to keep the ground wires in the PVC ducting clean and
spiffy. Sometimes the bags blow off the DC, dunno why.
All my cordless tools run better now that I have converted them to
single-pole 270-degree 4.5 phase direct current. I can now make screws
pop out of the side of all my cabinets MUCH faster than before.
He had me pissed enuff that I never really read your reply.
Guess I have to admit the same...
>Oh...and how I spend my time on the computer doesn't concern you..it
>is part of my anger management therapy.
Just curious -- do Dorks like this one cause the need for AMT? Hoping
that most of your customers are more reasonable...
PT Barnum (who I understand was misquoted -- but if he wasn't --) should
have said... "There is an idiot born every minute."
So it wasn't $100 ????
So it was a prototype?
The Prototype was $180? Not $100?
So it did need a CNC machine?
Still don't know if MDF is suitable till you see it?
Look at the assumptions that were made by Morris Dovey... He then spent
an hour on it. If he chose to subsidize you - good. If it was someone
else fine. If you spent more of your time and more cash -- that is as it
if you used e-machine shop then you did additional work and - we would
have had to charge for the time?
Where did you get that tip?
What did you actually chose. MDF or metal or plastic?
Did I not suggest hidden requirements? Is that not now apparent?
Oh and learn how to ask your question correctly.
As in this is what I need. How would you make it and What would it cost.
Point made. Go away. Come back when you are a. reasonable and b. humble
and c. appreciate the tips you did get.
You got something free -- good advice -- and now you rub it in that you
used the information and now you wish to sneer.
Stupid. Stupid Stupid.
Good luck in your business -- you _will_ need it.
Find your nearest high school or vocational school that has a shop. Find a
student who has access to that shop and _really_ needs that hundred bucks.
Don't be surprised if halfway through either the instructor shuts him off or
he decides that he's putting far more than 100 bucks worth of effort into
Seriously, you need to decide whether you want to be in the gourmet food
business or the plastic tray business and then do one or the other. I
would be very surprised if there was not someone manufacturing plastic
trays that would fit your need for less than it will cost you to make them.
Quite true but he probably already knows that and figures he can do it
quicker and cheaper anyway off the backs of somebody here. If that sort
of thinking runs true in his business plan, I think I'd also probably
want to take a pass on his gourmet food... "How much for that butter?
What, you ain't got some that's past the sell date?" LOL!
Wow... this has gotten way out of hand. Honestly, I'm sorry. It is a
prototype...sorry. Forget the whole post. I can't believe you guys
think it is that much work to make a jig and plug in a router. Perhaps
I will just go to home depot and spend $97 on tools after all. Thank
you for your help.
Come back after you've finished, and tell us if it was as easy as you
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
On 16 Mar 2005 22:02:21 -0800, the inscrutable "Andrew P"
That's a marvelous idea, Andrew. Please do, and let us know 2 things:
1) How many hours it takes you to perform this simple function on MDF.
2) How many prototypes it takes you to make one which works and fits
the specs you posted.
Please be honest in reporting, too. I guarantee you'll be surprised at
how complex the task actually is without a CNC machine and experience.
P.S: You said "mold" in the post, not prototype. The difference might
be, say, 5 hours of detailing.
P.P.S: Did you get a quote from emachineshop?
P.P.P.S: Please post pictures of your proto when it's done.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of Minwax, I shall stain no Cherry.
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