Rack construction ideas????

[dpb]

OK, I've finally got back to the barn after about a 5-yr hiatus since last (seriously) worked on it...have a little more time this spring before farming actually begins as it's been cool this spring, so far...

Finished putting fill-in blocks under ends of studs had to cut back and cripple when replaced sill-plate on north wall along the waste gutter behind where the old milking stalls were and then replaced the 1X inner wall sheathing...the stalls have been removed years ago and remaining space is about 5-ft between rows of double 2X5 columns on 8-ft centers.

My original thought was to put a rack a la way lumber yards typically do across the width between two sets of columns but now I'm backing off that idea for several reasons -- one, it's only 13' from alleyway to outer wall which means anything longer has to go somewhere else or stick out into the driveway; two, it blocks access to window and shortens the length to less than enough to accommodate a full-length 14 thru the planer if set there in fixed location and lastly, and probably what's most got me thinking against it is that it leaves the area between the columns pretty much unused as is...

So, got to thinking about how to most effectively construct set of supports to be able to use area between the two rows of columns of perhaps a two to three feet length. That way as opposed to a solid support all the way across could still walk the length and the logistics of sliding really long stuff between the columns to load wouldn't have to happen all from the outside.

Plywood gussets work, of course, but take up quite a bit of storage area to be stout-enough so looking for what solutions others have come up with...

On hand I've got essentially unlimited supplies of old 2x stuff, a fair amount of 2" pipe (altho I've determined I think boring thru the columns for it leaves too little actual support to be wise) and various other angle and stuff altho my used metal supply is becoming rather short, unfortunately. I have a large amount of 5/8" soft iron bar stock (old silo banding rod but I've not figured out a way to use it practically)...

Anyways, suggestions/ideas/other racks you've seen pointed to all appreciated while I ponder...I'm going to spend the day leveling the last area that hasn't had a floor slab poured and using some old silo blocks and the like to cover as much of it as can to discourage the cats from thinking it's their indoor litter box...

[Sonny]

How much overhead space do you have in the stalls and in the driveway?

All my really long lumber, indoors, is stacked higher up, out of the way. Can you make part of your racks high enough to hold your long lumber higher than you'll work and/or drive?

How often would you be retrieving the longer lumber, to make having to clim b or reach up, to get it, a difficult task? I rarely use really long lumb er, so my having to retrieve it isn't a problem, since it's so seldom done.

Or, make your racks such that the lumber runs with the line of stalls, at t he back end of the stalls, along the outside wall of the barn. Your stall posts are 13' away, so there should be plenty room to maneuver a long board toward the drive-through area, from a back-of-the-stall rack. *I'm assumi ng the stalls have some openness, at least higher up, between each stall.

Sonny

[Swingman]

YMMV, but were I to have space to do it, I would store all my wood vertically instead of horizontally, just like the lumber yards do. AAMOF, I did that in the last shop I had and liked it much better.

Something to consider if you have the height ...

[dadiOH]

Kinda depends on how much weight you intend to put on it, no?

You mentioned pipe. When I was living in Mexico all the water heaters sat on 3/4" galvanized pipes embedded (horizontally) in the masonry walls. _________________

For my own rack...

My problem was that the lumber rack was to be on a concrete block wall which would have required a lot of PITA drilling if I depended on the CB wall for support. I didn't. Instead...

1. 5 - 2x4 uprights, floor to ceiling length

1. Uprights hooked together on edge at 24" interval by two pieces of 3/4" ply about 5-6 inches wide set into the uprights at about 18-24" from top and bottom of uprights.

2. Hooked together uprights were attached to wall with screws through the ply into the furring strips under the drywall.

1. Arms are 21" 2x4s lapped on each side with pieces of 3/4" ply; the ply pieces are longer than the 2x4 so the ply fully overlaps the uprights and are attached to them with 2 - 1/4" bolts. Each upright has four arms.

Now, that isn't going to hold up much weight before the screws pull out of the furring strips so...

1. I made a plinth of PT 2x4s that is butted against the uprights and Tapconed to the floor. It has a piece of 1/4 ply on top so that sawdust doesn't accumulate inside.

That helps hold the rack up but not all that much. What really holds it up is...

1. A 2x4 across the front of the uprights at the ceiling and lagged to each truss.

The top set of arms was positioned so that long pieces lumber could extend over the top of a door. They can extend to the other side too. I could get

16' lengths on the arms but there would be a 4' overhang on each end...too much except to get something out of the way temporarily.

At the moment I have about 1500 pounds of lumber on it, steady as a rock.

[dpb]

I've seen very few (actually can't think of any) commercial yards w/ vertical storage...every one I know of has either the old sheds or the modern equivalent inside large buildings. Other than stuff like baseboard, casing, other millwork, etc., that is...

I could do that only if I move it all up to the haymow since this is old wooden barn built for loose hay storage all available height except minimum is above the haymow floor. Mow joist bottoms are 7'+ from floor roughly iirc the finished floor is about 8-ft from ground level. Also built that way 'cuz did better job of holding animal heat during winter w/ the ceilings relatively low.

I've thought several times it would be very nice to have the whole shop up there where there's wide open floor space as well as height but there's no freight elevator (other than the old center rail hay fork if you want to stretch a point :) ) and I have the problem that I wasn't thinking when reroofed and let the price/availability at the time influence me into using shakes instead of sawn shingles for the roof. Being as how this is open sheathing wood shingle from the git-go and never had any before, I didn't think about using paper w/ the shakes and since the surface of them is so uneven the snow blows thru like gangbusters when it really blows (and here it's almost unheard of to not blow when the snow flies). So, for keeping stuff like that really dry it's a problem...I keep pondering how to deal with this problem, too, but so far don't have any (practical) solutions. :( It's just fine for the rain (on those rare occasions when we've had any) but snow's a b....

[dpb]

How often would you be retrieving the longer lumber, to make having

At the moment I've about 400 bft of 14' maple, about 600 of mixed oak that's from 12-16, about the same of #1C SYP as base stock for the rest of the barn trim work and miscellaneous other stuff. I was looking for basically general storage for everything where cut stuff can also go only just spread out in its own areas depending...

It's 13' from the wall to the driveway total--the second set of columns are about 6' from the first closer to the wall. The stalls themselves in this part of the barn have been gone for 50 years so it's all open except for the elevator leg towards one end for the feed mill we put in w/ the bins overhead in that corner of the mow...

Not sure I follow your thinking but as noted initially, my first idea was to go crossways and be done w/ the 13' foot length but then started realizing how much stuff there is already on hand that's 14's and over so decided that wasn't a good solution.

Then I thought I'd just build the platforms down the length between the two column rows (which were originally the two ends of the milking stalls, they faced in/out during milking w/ the business end of the inner line in the driveway area; it's not wide enough for two moo-cows head-to-head on either side of the driveway, not that any of that matters it's just history from days of yore) except I got to thinking about how that would create such a large essentially closed in area if solid shelving as I envisioned and began to try to imagine creative ways to build cantilevered storage in that space instead...

[-MIKE-]

Perhaps we're talking apples and oranges, here. Or lumber vs. boards.

"Lumber," or construction 2x's used for framing, etc. are stacked horizontally because they are shipped that way on the trucks and it's easy for a forklift to transfer them from the truck to a retail rack.

"Boards," or soft or hard wood used for finish work, cabinetry, shelving, mill work, etc., is stored vertically in every big box store I've ever seen. The only time I see "boards" stored horizontally is when it's not finished size, meaning it's only been milled straight one edge and rough-size planed. This is always in the commercial suppliers, as you mentioned. This is the hardwood that still needs machined to finished size by the buyer.

[dpb]

On 3/20/2013 12:28 PM, dadiOH wrote: ...

I did something very similar to that (using header in joists/trusses to take the lateral load) in the garage in the house in TN. I did the same w/ the arms except I made sizable gussets that took up a sizable amount of storage height 'cuz I wasn't confident of the load support of just the same or only slightly wider than the tubafor arms. How much do you think that arm will support comfortably, any idea?

Also in the Swing response I estimated the current onhand stock at something like 1200 bft of rough stock w/o accounting for the miscellaneous at all...so that's roughly 100 cu-ft at (say) 45 lb/cu-ft or call it 5000 lb. I'd guess all in all there's half-again that much more "stuff" of various types, sizes, species scattered around that would eventually like to get located out of the various places it's stacked/piled/tossed...

[Swingman]

Around here, those who sell to the trades and don't have at least a portion of their hardwoods, suitable softwoods, trim, etc., stored vertically are rare; and if they don't it would be for two main reasons ... they don't have the space, and/or they don't want you picking and choosing.

Although it takes more room (which was one of my qualifications) to store vertically, it is easier on the customer, the boards, and the business.

Many do a mix of both, but most always have a representative sample of their most used hardwoods stored vertically, with the remainder stored horizontally as a space saving technique.

Since I refuse to shop where I can't pick and chose, it is a moot point for me.

[Sonny]

Could you possibly, easily, convert one (or part of one) stall side into a new driveway and make part of the present driveway and part of the other stall side into whatever storage space you would need?

Sonny

[-MIKE-]

There's the rub, huh? I swear I almost come to blows with the guy who runs the warehouse at my local hardwood/plywood supplier when it comes to the whole picking thing.

Like everyone on this planet, price is a big factor to me. But when I end up getting boards with hidden bark/knots/worm holes, etc., and splits 5" up the middle of an end, and they calculate board feet on the widest end of the board, when the thing tapers 3 inches in

10 feet, then my "cheap hardwood place" is now the "expensive hardwood place" because of all the waste I just paid for and time, effort and tool use I have to spend getting the product to the quality it should've been at retail.

When I get plywood that isn't square, has chunks taken out of the edges, has voids under the finish veneer, has a weeks worth of warehouse dirt and grime all over it, or scratches from the sheets dragged off the top of it.... well, again, my "cheap plywood place" just became my "expensive plywood place" because of the waste I paid for and time, effort and tool use I have to spend getting the product to the quality it should've been at retail.

So when they start loading a sheet of plywood that looks like it's been returned six times, already and I tell them "I can't take this with all this x,y &z wrong with it," the guys says, "Well we can swap it out if you want?" with a bunch of attitude on the side... urg. See, that's the problem. They should've never tried to push that crap off on me in the first place.

When I'm picking through their hardwood racks and they come up to me, all huffy and in a hurry saying, "Can I help you with something?" "No, I'm just picking some boards." "Well, we don't really like people cherry picking through our racks and messing at all up." "Sir, there are two things I can assure you of. One, when I'm finished in these racks, they'll be neater than when I started. And two, after buying all my hardwood here for the past 5 years, if I can't pick my own boards, then I'm buying my hardwood somewhere else."

They've grown content with people who only see the retail price and don't calculate the extended cost of their "cheap wood." They've adjusted to the lowest common denominator customer, like Walmart, and since they keep coming to shop there, they see no reason to change. I guess I've also grown context to be the a-hole who gives them a hard time whenever he buys anything. :-)

[dpb]

I buy graded (almost always #1C) by the lot or small bundle and do my picking/choosing here instead of at the yard. In VA and TN it was common enough could simply go directly to small mills; here there's no place that stocks any hardwood at all other than the millwork stuff so there's no point in asking to sort 'cuz there's nothing to sort thru to begin with... :)

Altho the oak I have on hand now actually came from an individual who called in the local "RadioBay" AM talk show one morning. Somewhere in his family the owned some ground in central Ohio being cleared for a new power line and they kept all the wood as part of the right of way agreement. He had brought a whole semi-trailer out and decided wasn't going to use it all. It's tree-run and mixed varieties but at $1/ft what's to complain? There are a few 16" wide nearly clear and thicknesses from 4/4 to 12...I'm thinking I wish I'd just have taken the big truck and brought it all but didn't have any place for it at the time at all.

[dpb]

...

I only buy roughsawn stock all sides and I was thinking of the commercial hardwood distributors that don't do retail sales ('cuz I don't buy boards). There's a distributor in Wichita that will break a full bundle and rebundle for a minimum of 1 to 200 bd-ft depending on species and how they feel that particular day.

I virtually always buy #1C because of the advantage of price/yield compared to clear and don't expect the yard to handle it except by lift--I either take the trailer or the flatbed truck then transfer it at home. It would be great if I had a place w/ direct fork access but can't get the big tractor in the barn w/ the loader forks and there are too many obstructions even w/ the little one to do more than just drive down the center alleyway.

[dpb]

Possibly? Yes. Easily? No(+).

And I wouldn't anyway because of the sentimental nature of it being the antique it is that the exterior is as was when grandpa built it. I keep trying to get the moths out of the billfold and build a new large heated shed but tight has reined supreme over want so far... :)

(+) Then again, another fella' in the NE part of the county actually disconnected the entire haymow floor in a similarly-built barn of roughly same vintage (in sections) and raised it to give between 10-12' clearance on the ground floor.

[Swingman]

That is indeed an excellent, and smart, way to buy ... have done so, and I would do that very thing again if I still had the room.

Just finding a place to store project FAS, and getting rid of the scraps afterwards, is an urban challenge ... I'm located five crow miles from the center of a population area of 2 million plus.

[woodchucker]

If you have the height, forget a horizontal rack, go vertical. Build a platform to keep the wood off the ground (to prevent any absorbtion). I have a horizontal rack. I think it is 4 or 5 levels. It holds a lot of wood. The problem is getting to it. Means restacking.

If I had more than 7.5 feet I would go vertical. its easier to sort and pull a piece out.

[dpb]

On 3/20/2013 7:00 PM, woodchucker wrote: ...

As noted earlier, the only way(+) to do that would be to move it all to the haymow (w/o a lift so it ain't agonna' happen :) )

(+) It would be possible to remove floor from an area of the mow but but that ain't happening, either. :)

[dadiOH]

Well, I can hang from one without any difficulty and I weigh 220. I wouldn't have any qualms about putting 500# on one. Especially with the weight distributed along the length of the arm. I have four arms along each "row" so that would be what? around 400 bf? I've never had that much on one row though so I can't say for sure.

Basically, there would have to be enough weight on the arm for it to rip the

1/4" bolts through 1 1/2" of plywood.

[dadiOH]

As an added thought, the weight bearing of the arms would be increased greatly if one were to screw small, plywood "thrust blocks" to the uprights just above and below where the plywood on each arm laps the upright.

[Lew Hodgett]

RE: Subject

This will get you to WoodSmithShop.

Search for "Lumber Rack" which will give you some ideas to think about.

Lew