As long as you are speaking about what I like, I would say I like "participating"~~the group dynamics. I actually think I have more strength with the written word than with the spoken word. At least, I think it better reveals my wonderful sense of humor! : ) YMMV
Something sadly discovered, the hard way, by so many, is that a pure text medium does not lend itself well to humour and especially sarcasm. It has to be marked clearly as such no matter how obvious the poster thinks it should be. But it mimics real life in that if you used it in a crowd of say...100 people, somebody is going to "punch you in the mouth". **SIGH**
Then there is the bullies mostly fitting into the former mentioned group.
m II wrote:
Ground up makes much more sense except for habit expectations and the pins are harder to line up due to lack of visibility.
"I can change. You can change. We all can change"
scott
----------------- Puckdr>Some devices were designed to sit on the outlet and rely on gravity to
I'd say yes, since that's the way MOST of them are wired.
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It is not hidden.
It is suitable enough for my humour and sarcrasm...lol
For the same reason putting a refrigerator on a GFCI circuit is discouraged.
I think it has something to do with voodoo.
There *is* a slight phase delay when the circuit supplies an inductive load -- which means that during a time window measured in milliseconds the currents *are* different. That can be enough to trip a GFCI.
Obviously, over anything but an extremely brief time period, the currents are exactly the same.
Equally obviously, "m II" is in my killfile for good and valid reasons. :-)
In my humble opinion, "m II" is best ignored...
Well you are absolutely wrong.
New code requires that the sump pump be plugged into a gfi. So What do you say to that... Any basement circuit requires it.
I had an inspection recently and they were trying to ding me on that, but my inspection was not related to that. And I argued, that when the house was built that was what was called for.
I am not wrong in saying they should not be used on motors. It's been proven that motors can cause false trips on gfci's.
Plus, very few AHJ's are on the "new" code. And _I_ for one will never put a sump pump on a gfci. Code or not. And I'm not gonna look it up, but i think you're wrong.
Only if it's in an unfinished basement (or unfinished portion of a basement), or a crawl space. And that's not new, either: that provision dates from the 2008 Code, maybe earlier.
I say, you're mistaken.
Not true.
GFCI protection is required *only* in unfinished basements and unfinished portions of partially finished basements:
"...receptacles ... in the locations specified ... shall have ground-fault protection ... Unfinished basements -- for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work rooms, and the like ..." [2011 NEC, Article 210.8(A)(5)]
There *is* a slight phase delay when the circuit supplies an inductive load -- which means that during a time window measured in milliseconds the currents *are* different. That can be enough to trip a GFCI.
Obviously, over anything but an extremely brief time period, the currents are exactly the same.
Equally obviously, "m II" is in my killfile for good and valid reasons. :-)
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Sorry, but that "delay" theory is not correct.
You may have this confused with inductance where an inductive coil electrical component exhibits a reluctance to current change.
Remember "current" flows through an inductive component and never into one without returning to the source. There will never be a difference in current in and out due to an inductive component or any component in an electrical circuit (static electricity theory using high voltage notwithstanding).
A changing voltage may create a phase lagged current through an inductor (coil) but not a current phase lagged to itself, whereby current enters a component but does not leave at. That would be impossible.
Review Kirchhoff's Current Law. (loosely stated) The sum of currents arriving at any point must equal zero.
This is not what makes GFCI units trip from fan motors. Current leakage faults to ground or other conductors causing a current "differential" (ANSI Standard C37.2 - 87) is the only trigger.
However, this is not a two-terminal device. There is capacitance to ground, you're missing. This complicates the issue greatly. ...and yes, it is a problem, or at least was. I believe recent GFCIs have fixed this problem. The codes have been changed to reflect this.
Capacitance.
Glad you weren't looking for a quick answer! LOL
In addition to the typo in electrical, he misspelled Quirky. :-)
Hell, he got the correct answer on the second _reply_ at 4:46 PM. Nothing further was needed on the original question ... and for the GFCI question, eleven minutes later at 4:57 PM. :)
Gosh, and I almost didn't post my "quick question". It's hard to guess what will capture peoples' interest. But I think if a thread has a lot of potential energy in it (like a good application of gravity, chickens, a catapult, gun powder, and/or electricity), that probably adds to its attractiveness to me and to many other like-minded overaged juvenile-delinquent's here! : )
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You mean there was a question put forth? LOL
You do "stir-the-pot" here and make a lot of people think hard or research subjects. Some may hate the "noise" but it is good for most.
Gosh, I'm just the type that likes to ask questions, while others here really have the answers. But thank you.
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