Question about shellac solvent

[fredfighter]

enough

Non Sequitor.

AFAIK small doses of benzene do not cause blindness. (e.g. check out the meaning of 'confabulation')

[fredfighter]

expensive,

That makes sense, though I wouldn't count on all of the other 5% being water.

[Baron]

No problem but there are two issues you may want to consider.

1. Methyl hydrate (methanol or methyl alcohol) is significantly more toxic than ethanol (ethyl hydrate?) or denatured alcohol. Be careful with the fumes.

1. It has been reported that a shellac film made from a methanol solution is slightly more brittle than that made from an ethanol solution. If this is not a concern for your project, don't worry about it.

Good Luck.

[George E. Cawthon]

I though this was about methanol? When was there a differentiation in taxes between farm and non-farm methanol?

If you are really talking about gasoline, I think something got lost in the translation or your grandfather was a bit dotty. Dyes are used in diesel for tax differentiation purposes, but in gas? Something is screwy about this. Pump gas for cars has been colored since I was little--yellow to red. What color would they put in farm gas? (or maybe they didn't color it?) If the bread took all the color out, what would they use to make it red like regular pump gas? And why in hell would you use bread instead of diatomaceous earth? Are we talking about the 1920s? 30s? I know it was not true in the 40s. Maybe this coloring things has something to do with oil field areas a burnable fraction was actually pumped (and stolen).

Eddie Munster wrote:

[fredfighter]

ISTR that Sohio gasoline in the 1970's was red, white, or blue with 'white' being undyed unleaded, red was leaded regular and blue was leaded premium.

Possibly because bread was more common or maybe because diatomaceous earth would not work? Isn't DE is a physical filtrate that will not remove dissolved substances.

Probably the story was from WWII when gasoline was rationed.

[Norman D. Crow]

I don't know about the gas being colored, but I do know that in the early '50s, farmers got a tax break on gasoline for "farm" use, and you could get your farm tank filled by Agway, but you were NOT supposed to use it in your auto, motorcycle, etc. I don't know as there was any actual telltale connected with it, but I know Uncle never put it in any car, except maybe a couple gallons in an emergency if someone didn't put gas in while in town, and it might not make it to town.

[Duane Bozarth]

"Norman D. Crow" wrote: ...

Same system still in effect in all ag areas afaik.

Colored fuels came into being at least by the mid-50's (here in KS, anyway). I'm not old enough to know prior to then just how far back it actually goes. Multiple purposes--product indentification plus as in the above example tax purposes. Farm diesel is still colered differently from truck/pump/highway diesel as it is not subject to road taxes (and, depending on local jurisdiction, perhaps other fees/taxes as well). To best of my knowledge, there's so little farm gasoline these days there is no off-road available (certainly not here, anyway). For the old tractors and trucks, we buy pump gas, keep records of what is off-road (local Co-op has key pumps so we have separate farm/non-farm keys) and deduct the tax off the taxes when file.

One doson't want to be caught by the weigh station guys w/ long haul/non-farm use farm diesel! They're pretty serious about enforcement...

[Norman D. Crow]

Yep, they really want to know about that diesel fuel. I was still driving truck when that changeover came in the 90's. Wasn't just the weigh stations, they set up random checks all over PA just to see the color of your diesel fuel.

[Ed Clarke]

The rumor (urban ledgend?) that I heard was that they assume you've been using farm fuel since you bought it. So they charge you back tax on whatever the odometer says.

[Duane Bozarth]

...

Have no information on that...think it would be difficult to make that stand up. I only farm, never drove commercially--well, did one trip w/ a load of calves while in HS from LA to WY w/for local cattle hauler who was in a bind one summer while I was in school...never again! :)

[J. Clarke]

Another place colored fuel is used is aviation gasoline. 100/130 leaded is green, 100 low-lead is blue. When you check the tank sump to make sure there's no water, you also check the color of the gas to make sure it's what the plane you're flying is supposed to use.

[Charlie Self]

Norm Crow notes:

I know zip about colored gas, but farmers still get a break on fuel for the tractors in the form of gas that is not taxed for road use. Basically, they pay almost no taxes, which tends to knock at least 30 cents a gallon off. A few farmers around here actually have fuel tanks on their farms, where they can just run the tractor or other gear up to the tank. Diesel is available the same way.

Charlie Self "It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric Hoffer

[Duane Bozarth]

Charlie Self wrote: ...

Don't know where you are, but all operations here have bulk tanks on farm...at 200+ gal/tankful for a modern tractor, to do otherwise is certainly impractical...as far as I know, all states require identification of off-road fuel. It must be an area of quite small farms for there to be any significant number of gasoline powered equipments (even trucks) on a farm these days...out here in grains (that's wheat, milo, corn, soybeans, some sunflowers) country, there isn't anybody still using gasoline and, in fact, there aren't even any equipments made w/ gasoline engines anymore (nor for 30 years or so, in fact) that would be used here. There was a big switch to LP in the 60s, then as equipment kept getting larger and larger, the reliability of diesel plus price led to an almost complete switchover to diesel, certainly by the 90s. A few folks keep one or two of the old small tractors or trucks for around the place (as do I) for mowing and use with bucket, etc., but there's so little gasoline on farm that I can't get bulk delivery of it any longer, although do diesel and could LP (although that's now driven mostly by residential demand for those who aren't on a natural gas tap, not because there's sufficient equipment usage by itself).

A "small" tractor here now is >100 hp...when I was a young(er) whippersnapper in the 60s, when we got our first Case 930 the ~80 hp beast seemed absolutely ! Large tractors now are pushing 300 hp,

4-wheel drive articulated beasties. Now we do rowcrop cultivating w/ larger tractors than the largest made when I was growing up. Of course, we went from four rows to 6, then 8, then 12, now 16 at 3 mph, then 4-5, now pushing 8. I don't have it yet, but could put on GPS guidance and start down the row maintaining inch accuracy and repeatibility from one pass to the next. Planter now does actually count and place each seed in the row within a fraction of an inch relative to the previous to control seeding density. A combine has yield monitors tied to GPS to monitor yield versus field area which can then automatically be correlated to soil conditions, fertilizer and herbicide/insecticide applications, etc. to determine most cost-effective practices...'tis absolutely a complete revolution to the 60 year old who spent 30 years as an engineer and came back to the farm after Dad died...

[J. Clarke]

I believe Charlie's in the same general region I am. Around here it's small farms mostly. The guy down the way grows a little bit of corn and other things and a lot of tobacco--best cigar-wrapper in the world--even the Cubans used to import it. Most of his equipment dates back to the '60s or earlier.

[Duane Bozarth]

...

...

That's what I surmised...our 12 quarters (160 A/quarter for those where things aren't all broken up into nice neat square sections) were well above average for the county when I was growing up...now I'm one of the smaller producers in the county, but at 60+ I'm not looking to expand further...

[Ba r r y]

I was going to write "HEY! That's CT Valley Wrapper!", then I realized it was you.

Barry

[Silvan]

That's why 90% of farms are owned by Conglom-Ag isn't it? Seems to me Farmer Brown can't afford all that big John Deere iron I see running out in farm country. That stuff must be *expensive*. They want $1,200 for a li'l ol' lawn mower.

[George E. Cawthon]

That's the way I remember it.

[Silvan]

I think they got over it because nobody bothered to try to sneak by anymore. Nobody has ever looked at the color of my fuel that I recall. I started driving in '97.

[Charlie Self]

Duane Bozarth responds:

Most farms around here are small, probably under 300 acres, often much smaller. The land is too cut up by forest and hills for them to be otherwise. A large cattle operation might have land scattered over miles, but there will be other farms and houses in the spaces.

Tractors around here tend to hold about what a car or light truck would hold. The midwest monsters are not useful: they'd never get around the obstacles efficiently.

I'd guess most of the more up-to-date operations use diesel.

Farming here consists of truck farms, small cattle operations, and dairy farms. Obviously, some grains are grown, but most of it is corn for silage.

What you describe would make most Virginia farmers quit and for a factory job. In fact, that's how many of them survived. Day job in a factory--or, in the case of those like my father-in-law, the mines (just thinking about that working environment gives me nightmares)--the rest of their time on the farm. FIL did his mining long enough to pay for the acres he wanted, then went to farming full time on less than 200 very hilly acres in western Virginia. His place is in the mountains, so those articulated tractors would spend more time tumbling down the hills than they would doing useful work.

Different strokes for different areas.

Charlie Self "It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric Hoffer