Planes

[brianlanning]

On my list of remaining tools to buy are some planes. I've been mainly a normite up until now, but inheirited a jackplane which has gotten me interested in hand tools. So much so, I bought a tormek which has made all the difference in the world for my chisels. After watching Roy Underhill and much thought, I've decided to add a few specialty planes to the collection.

So I guess I have two questions. What planes would you recommend, and who is a good source for specialty planes, since I can't seem to find any online?

For example, I think I need a smoothing plane, spoke shave, and a cabinet scraper. I think I could probably pass on the planes designed for smoothing rough lumber since I'm most likely to use the jointer and planer, then switch to the planes for finer work. Basically, I'd like to avoid sanding while using planes in situations where it's not much slower than setting up a machine. For example, using a jointer plane to edge-joint two boards. I'm also liking the veritas shoulder planes.

For the specialty planes, I see lee valley has a router plane that looks nice. I'd like to find a good (and probably expensive) combination plane. I can see cutting grooves in rails shaker style rails and styles with this rather than setting up the router. Maybe a plough plane. Something for making dados, or even sliding dovetails. A bunch of planes for making details like beads and coves, although the combination could probably do this. Then roy was demonstrating a matched set of tongue and groove planes. Anyway, where do I get this stuff? Who still makes them?

brian

[Ba r r y]

I REALLY like Veritas (Lee Valley) for feature & quality to value ratio.

I don't know why you couldn't find good planes online !

Veritas, Lie Nielsen, Clifton, Knight, ECE, etc... are sold all over the 'net:

Just to name a few places...

I dimension with machines, just like you, and use the following hand planes the most:

Veritas low angle block Veritas medium and large shoulder planes Old Stanley #4 with a Hock iron.

The Stanley #4 with a Hock iron took a lot of fettling to get right. If I was doing it again, I'd just buy the Veritas and spend the time working wood. Like fettling? Get old planes.

I also have and use on a regular basis, but not in the top three, and in no particular order: Veritas #6 Stanley #5 w/ Hock (see the #4 comment) Veritas apron plane Cheapie standard block Card scrapers (Straight & Shaped) Veritas cabinet scraper GOOD rasps (not planes, but underrated and REALLY handy!)

I actually use the #6 and apron plane most often in finish carpentry. Tasks like trimming door edges, molding fits, and miter tuning come to mind

Not used by me on a regular basis, but very necessary when needed: (I'd buy them when needed for the first time for a project) Veritas spoke shaves Veritas Bullnose

Good, or to some folks, possibly better alternatives to what I've got: Top Three: LN Rabbet Block Clifton medium shoulder LN large shoulder LN, Veritas, or Clifton #4

I can't stress the overall _value_ of Veritas planes enough. LN are fan-freakin' tastic, but expensive. In different schools, I've had the valuable opportunity to use LN, Clifton, Veritas, and well cared for old Stanley stuff on an extended basis, so I was able to get some good understanding of the differences. ALL of them _worked_ great when sharpened and tuned properly. I think none of them would disappoint.

I haven't done very much with router planes, scratch stocks, wooden planes, etc... so I shouldn't comment on them.

The most important thing I have related to hand tools is my sharpening tools and the proper instruction I received to sharpen them. All of my hand tools are useless junk if they're dull.

Got good chisels yet? Did I mention how well a quality rasp can work?

Barry

[Lowell Holmes]

will knock your socks off.

[brianlanning]

I mean I can't find the specialty stuff. I've seen all the sites you mention. Everyone has jack planes, jointer planes, smoothing planes and the like. But where can I get a combination plane? I mean, other than ebay. Or the tongue and groove planes similar to the antiques that roy underhill was using?

brian

[Lobby Dosser]

Try here:

[AAvK]

For new T&G planes I agree with Lowell's mentioning, you would have to talk to them. There is also the Clifton multi-plane made by Clico tooling in England but no one stocks it anymore because it was far too expensive, to the tune of $869.xx -aroos...you know. But any company that used to stock it should be able to order one.

Is Highland Hardware, they had it. Any Clifton dealer can get it.

There is also Anant multi-planes made in India and no doubt utter garbage, which would take massive amounts of fettling and tuning to make it work properly. Anant is also sold by HH.

That's about it. Otherwise it's the bay or online old tool sellers, local junk shops, antique malls and yard sales. That's where it's at.

[Lobby Dosser]

No, that's not all. There is Steve Knight:

for $250

All you need to do is add whatever hand made irons you *really* need or want.

[AAvK]

YES but that is a *plow plane*, pertinent to the OP request, there is a big difference. Unless it is viable to get into grinding and hardening blades of other shapes that will fit it...or paying extra for them. Could work.

[Doug Payne]

Nothin' wrong with eBay. I've bought 2 really nice Stanley 45's there in the past while for less than $200 each. One was complete (well, except for the nosing tool and the hollows and rounds, which were always optional extras), one was missing a couple of parts that I was easily able to find and buy inexpensively, also on eBay. (Before you ask, they're not for sale; one's mine and the second was for my sin-in-law). You just have to be patient and watch the sellers' feedback, and ask lots of questions. You can quickly get a sense of who's honest. Just for fun I dragged out my old LV catalogues the other night. Back in '81/82 a Record 405 (Stanley 45 equiv.) sold new for $400 CDN. If you want to spend less for a 45, look for a Record 050C. Not as 'nice', but I used one for years until I decided to get a 45. Still have it. Still use it. You should be able to find a good one for $50-60.

[Lobby Dosser]

Certainly would be cheaper than a Clifton. And how many people actually cut their own molding by hand? If I wanted to do it, I'd much prefer wooden molding planes and I own a Sargent 45 clone.

[brianlanning]

I've found a few of the planes from the links everyone's provided. thanks. I'm a bit annoyed by the prices of some. Steve Knight seems to have good prices, but $869 for a plane? That's just ridiculous. One site had a set of moulding planes for around $2000. Mabye I should go into the specialty plane making business. :-)

brian

[brianlanning]

I think at this point, the thing to do would be maybe to pick up a combination plane somewhere with all the extra cutters. That would suffice for the mouldings I think. Then a plough and dado plane in addition to all the "normal" planes. I guess I need to start garage-saling looking for some old planes.

brian

[David]

Don't look at the price of a Sauer & Steiner!

dave

[brianlanning]

Is that the $8000 silliness I saw?

brian

[Mark & Juanita]

Yep, you're sure to save as much money making planes (or make as much if you are selling them) as you save making your own furniture. ;-)

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[alexy]

Check out

[Lobby Dosser]

Do you really Need a combination plane? Do you really think you will use 'all the extra cutters'? Are you really going to cut your own moulding? If so, how much? Hundreds of feet per year or just a few? Picture doing hundreds of feet by hand. Picture paying several hundred dollars to do a few feet per year. Then think about a decent router and some bits.

[David]

I saw one for over $3,000 Canadian. I guess they have other models. Since they are out of my price range, I didn't investigate further.

Dave

[charlie b]

Let me start with the #45 (or #55 if you want the Cadillac model) Like a chisel plane, it has no "mouth" and no "chip breaker", both needed for fine, controlled shavings. THAT means that the wood must be as close to MDF as you can find because the iron WILL try and follow the grain. Not a problem when cutting "downhill"

- but if the grain changes direction and you start cutting "uphill" . . .

I picked up an old #45 at one of the City of Austin Garage Sales - for a wopping $80. Also picked up the T&G plane with the flip around fence (fence in position 1 to cut the groove, flip it around and cut one side of the tongue then go to the other side of the board and cut the other side. Spent lots and lots of time getting all the "irons" flat backed and sharp and still had "challenges" getting them to work - even adequately.

But if you want to dabble a bit before jumping in with both feet, check out the LN Beading Tool. It's a beautiful shiny bronze spoke shave like tool with a set of neat scraper/scratcher type cutters that'll do beads and half round grooves, etc.

For the results these types of planes "do", a router bit will do it a lot better and a lot faster with better repeatability.

The larger of the two router planes is a tool that lets you fine tune the depth of a dado or rabbet/ rebate. Also comes in handy for leveling the "field"/background around a carving.

Another handy hand plane is an adjustable mouth block plane. Chamfer/ease edges, chamfer the ends of tenons to make it easier to align with a mortise etc.. Better yet, the LN Rabbet Block Plane - a block plane with a special iron that, at the bottom 3/4 of an inch, is just slightly wider than the plane body, which has openings on both sides to accomodate the special iron. Works like a block plane AND lets you trim up tenons and deepen a rabbet/rebate a little.

A much overlooked neander tool is the marking knife. Pencils are great for writing and drawing but not good enough for joint layout marks AND scribe lines can't be rubbed off - accidentally or by intent. You want a "left" and "right" single bevel knife, each with a long bevel and sharp point.

just more to confuse you

charlie b

[AAvK]

Charlie what about the No. 46, have you used one?