paneling versus drywall


drywall is a lot of work and i think next time i will do paneling or maybe lath and plaster
drywall probably gives better sound proofing but what other advantages are there over paneling
drywall is heavy but easy to cut but it is fragile once you get it on the wall you have to tape it
then the mud coats and the mess then the multiple sandings and all the mess then you have to primer and then a coat or two of paint
paneling you cut it nail it and finish it with a clear coat and you are done
maybe drywall is cheaper but i am guessing that some engineered panel products might get close in price
and really maybe metal lath and plaster is the cheapest fastest way to go
now come to think of it how did drywall replace lath and plaster
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On 10/30/2017 6:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

Depending upon where you want to use it, think fire and flame spread ratings.
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On 10/30/2017 6:10 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

Not sure what kind of paneling you are looking at. Is it 1960 again?
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replying to Electric Comet, Iggy wrote: Drywall nor lathe and plaster have no "advantage" over paneling. Paneling is the advantage. Drywall and plaster are just seamless, and drywall's installed wrong by most everyone (horizontal idiots listening to the likes of Moron Frauderson) to kill any minimal hedge of fire protection.

Paneling never needs to be thrown out. You can remove it and put it back as many times as you want to do wiring 1-year, piping the next year and insulation in a decade. No waste ever, can't easily pop a hole through it, it doesn't ding and dent, no crumbing from hanging a picture, can be painted or stained and highly resistant to water...compared to any gypsum stuff.
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On Monday, October 30, 2017 at 8:44:06 PM UTC-4, Iggy wrote:

You are so funny! Who writes your stuff?
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replying to DerbyDad03, Iggy wrote: Oh, the horizontal drywall absurdity? I can provide proof for that truth. You'll be surprised how flawed it is, which is in everyway.
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On 10/31/2017 7:14 AM, Iggy wrote:

Please fill us in.
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replying to Leon, Iggy wrote: Fill, I will. Here's what's wrong with Horizontal and why it'll never be right:

1 – DEFECTIVE SEAM - Horizontal rows needing more than one drywall panel CREATES (instead of AVOIDS) butt-joint HUMPS, which are NOT flat and are a TWICE (minimum) the effort DEFECT. Outlet and switch cover-plates, window and door trim, baseboards, pictures, mirrors and cabinets don’t sit flat. Using ANY "butt-joint product" erases ALL "claimed" benefits of Horizontal!

2 – UNSUPPORTED SEAM – Horizontal’s tapered seam is 90% unsupported, only 10% (instead of Vertical's 100%) contacts framing, the seam WILL AND DOES crack. Light switch and countertop electrical boxes within the seam equals MORE weakness and butt-joint doubled, MINIMUM, efforts.

3 – STRUCTURAL DEFECT - Horizontal only reinforces a wall height of 4’ or less, a full-height wall's top-plate is never connected to the bottom-plate. As in and due to #2 above, Frictional Contact is MINIMIZED (instead of maximized by Vertical).

4 – SEAM DECEPTION...(4'x8' PANELS) – Example 1: 48” tall by 102” long wall, Horizontal = 48” (technically) and it’s a 24” wide butt-joint or a MINIMUM of doubling the 48" (Vertical = the same, generously, 96” but they’re easy 6” wide joints). Example 2: 96” tall by 102” long wall, Horizontal = 222” with 50% being 24” wide butts (Vertical = 192” of 6” wide easy joints, yes LESS)...in a Kitchen, Horizontal = 100% of 24” wide butts (Vertical = 0%). Yes, Horizontal does the taper area twice (MINIMUM) in order to hide its butts, so VERY minimally just another 24” was added AND #5 below was not factored into Horizontal's monumental FRAUD.

5 – SELF-DEFEATING ANGLES – Horizontal only uses ONE of a panel’s tapered edges and PUTS the other taper at the ceiling corner and baseboard, CREATING (instead of AVOIDING) a twisted angle that MUST be shimmed or ADDITIONALLY mudded. This too, instantly erases ALL "claimed" benefits of Horizontal by DOUBLING the seam amount, patching itself to equal Vertical!

6 – UNFRIENDLY SEAMS – Horizontal celebrates the chest height seam and PRETENDS there’s no 24”-WIDE floor to ceiling butt-joint OR the EVER present baseboard bevel of UNFINISHED WORK (Vertical has easy joints and the top's screwed, taped and mudded later with the ceiling corner and the baseboard SPOTS can also be done separately).

7 - FIRE HAZARD LIABILITY - Horizontal only fills the coin-thin SEAM'S FACE and has NO back-blocking, CAUSING smoke and fire’s spread by inviting fuel-air for a fire's growth (Vertical is full depth and airtight once simply screwed-in).

8 - UNSAFE INSTALLATION - Horizontal needs 2-PEOPLE for a safe installation and the panel is airborne, literally CREATING the chance to CAUSE injury (Vertical easily tilts-up with just 1-person). Panel lifters aren't even as easy and safe as Vertical’s tilt-up.

9 - ADDITIONAL WASTE - When correctly covering a knee wall, half wall, tub front, column or soffit by first removing both tapered edges, Horizontal CAN'T use the tapers elsewhere (Vertical can and does). AND, Horizontal WASTES 4-times the mud on their completely unnecessary butt-joints AND baseboard bevel's...if ever done.

10 - DESTRUCTIVE IGNORANCE - Foundation and Framing crews go to great pains to make everything flat, level, plumb and square. Horizontal DESTROYS those efforts with their DEFECTIVE humps and baseboard bevels (Vertical keeps the perfection).

11 - GRASPING AT STRAWS WITH OUTRIGHT FRAUD - Horizontals FALSELY AND UNKNOWINGLY wave the absurdly INVALID (FPL439) 1983 testing “Contribution of Gypsum Wallboard to Racking Resistance of Light-Frame Walls” by the self-convicted fraud Ronald W. Wolfe. FPL439 found that ALL tapered paper-wrapped edges must be FULLY INTACT for Horizontal to beat Vertical, PERIOD. In the real-world, Horizontal's bottom paper-wrapped edge is REMOVED BY LAW, for spacing from all floors and thereby COMPLETELY NEGATE Wolfe’s inexcusably deceitful and worthless "study" (LAUGHABLE) and summation.

12 - JOINT OR SEAM TREATMENT - According to the ASTM's C840 8.2, Horizontal's seams MUST be mudded to provide ANY fire, smoke and air travel resistance (Vertical's SO GOOD that it's NOT REQUIRED to have its seams treated AT ALL).

13 - COSTLY SLOW COMPLICATION - Horizontal's depend upon PRICEY special muds and even messy tape or taping tools that WASTE mud. Taping tools still require a 2nd step of knifing the tape and the muds require a mixing step. That's MORE expense, MORE time, MORE tools and equipment and MORE water...for an INFERIOR job! Vertical's SUPERIOR with the cheapest ready-mix bucket muds and dry self-adhesive tape. Again, Vertical's seam treatment is JUST for looks.

14 - FIRE RATING FAIL - Most Single-ply or Single-layer drywall for Commercial Work is required to be installed Vertically, to obtain drywall's ACTUAL fire rating. This is well-known by the majority of Horizontals, but you and your children don't matter to a Horizontal. And for what, to honor the FRAUDS that taught them wrong? You've now seen that Vertical's FASTER overall and immensely BETTER in every way.

Only promote HORIZONTAL AS WRONG and confidently cite the above incontestable FACTS.
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On 10/31/2017 9:44 AM, Iggy wrote:

All valid points but in the Houston area I do not see these problems and the vast majority of dry wall goes up horizontally. Because homes in this also have other than 8' ceilings, 10, 11, 12 footers are common, even 16'10' tall walls are common, the but joint is unavoidable regardless of how the drywall is stacked. Again, I don't see issues, and that is a visual inspection. The bigger issues are non straight studs, no drywall direction hides that and creates the issues you mentioned above concerning pictures and mirrors.
Maybe all the builders are doing it wrong.

Agreed again but you are assuming that the studs are actually 16" OC. Often studs are 20" OC and walls are not always a perfect length to avoid butt joints.

I could be wrong but I don't think dry wall helps much to reinforce the connection between the top plate and bottom plate. I do however know that it helps to prevent racking.

Well the bottom is typically covered by base boards so no need to mud the bottom. The top has to be taped and floated anyway to join the ceiling.

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I generally manually taper the butt edges before taping. Doesn't take long and makes for a cleaner surface.
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On Tuesday, October 31, 2017 at 11:43:27 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:

be

wall panel

re a

t flat. Using

http://butttaper.com/home.htm might be worth looking into...
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes:

Which lead me to
https://www.usg.com/content/usgcom/en_CA_east/resource-center/gypsum-construction-handbook.html
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replying to Scott Lurndal, Iggy wrote: Yep, that Handbook is based on the error that's always been in the ASTM...the word "except" should actually be "especially". But again, I got nowhere with any of the manufacturers nor the ASTM this year. They just won't recognize their air-tight requirement was completely abandoned due to 1-wrong-word.
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 16:20:44 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

Pretty extensive coverage
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 08:49:44 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

If doing much drywalling, definitely worth looking at! Under $200.
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On 10/31/2017 10:43 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Yeah, that is how I see it being done.
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replying to Scott Lurndal, Iggy wrote: Bravo! Yep, a very shallow 1/8" "V" in framing for Vertical or a recessed stud or butt-board attached to blocking makes all the difference in quality and speed.
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replying to Leon, Iggy wrote: Thank you and thank you again for actually reading, as well as comprehending without emotional bias. Yep, and that's why nice new houses burn to the ground in 20-minutes. A butt-joint 8', 10' or 12' up wouldn't bother anything and it would be a horizontal hump instead of vertical...if you didn't turn it into a taper.

If you know how to map a room or prep the site correctly, you end up with extremely few corrections in a vertical install. Again, if the panel goes floor to ceiling, there isn't even a single butt in the entire building.

You're not wrong, drywall can never be considered structural. However, by connecting the top and bottom plate the drywall can't crack and all movement is forced into the screws, where they can harmlessly widen their holes if and as needed.

Correct, but why purposely MAKE anyone's job more difficult by not completing your job? You wouldn't stand for framers putting in just enough studs to hold the place up (72"-o.c.) and leave you with finishing their work. Same goes for the ceiling, try cutting-in a horizontally installed room with a roller. You can't, the angle's less than 90-deg., instead of more than 90-deg.

Great questions! You're actually the only sane person I've ever run into. I hope you give vertical a try someday and finally allow drywall to do it's best. Cracks, sags, specialty compounds, tape indecision, additional tools or cords and bad-day mud jobs will all go away to leave you with a superior job.
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On 10/31/2017 2:44 PM, Iggy wrote:

I appreciate the input. I'm not an installer but I am inside new home construction quite a bit. And for better or worse horizontal is the norm in the Houston area.
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replying to Leon, Iggy wrote: Yeah, it's too bad and it's not just Houston it's the norm everywhere. I've even seen builders, quite laughably, listing horizontal as a selling point...like no-one else is doing the garbage.
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