drywall is a lot of work and i think next time i will do paneling or
maybe lath and plaster
drywall probably gives better sound proofing but what other advantages
are there over paneling
drywall is heavy but easy to cut but it is fragile
once you get it on the wall you have to tape it
then the mud coats and the mess
then the multiple sandings and all the mess
then you have to primer and then a coat or two of paint
paneling you cut it nail it and finish it with a clear coat and you are
maybe drywall is cheaper but i am guessing that some engineered panel
products might get close in price
and really maybe metal lath and plaster is the cheapest fastest way to
now come to think of it how did drywall replace lath and plaster
replying to Electric Comet, Iggy wrote:
Drywall nor lathe and plaster have no "advantage" over paneling. Paneling is the
advantage. Drywall and plaster are just seamless, and drywall's installed wrong
by most everyone (horizontal idiots listening to the likes of Moron Frauderson)
to kill any minimal hedge of fire protection.
Paneling never needs to be thrown out. You can remove it and put it back as many
times as you want to do wiring 1-year, piping the next year and insulation in a
decade. No waste ever, can't easily pop a hole through it, it doesn't ding and
dent, no crumbing from hanging a picture, can be painted or stained and highly
resistant to water...compared to any gypsum stuff.
replying to Leon, Iggy wrote:
Fill, I will. Here's what's wrong with Horizontal and why it'll never be right:
1 – DEFECTIVE SEAM - Horizontal rows needing more than one drywall panel
CREATES (instead of AVOIDS) butt-joint HUMPS, which are NOT flat and are a TWICE
(minimum) the effort DEFECT. Outlet and switch cover-plates, window and door
trim, baseboards, pictures, mirrors and cabinets don’t sit flat. Using ANY
"butt-joint product" erases ALL "claimed" benefits of Horizontal!
2 – UNSUPPORTED SEAM – Horizontal’s tapered seam is 90% unsupported, only
10% (instead of Vertical's 100%) contacts framing, the seam WILL AND DOES crack.
Light switch and countertop electrical boxes within the seam equals MORE
weakness and butt-joint doubled, MINIMUM, efforts.
3 – STRUCTURAL DEFECT - Horizontal only reinforces a wall height of 4’ or
less, a full-height wall's top-plate is never connected to the bottom-plate. As
in and due to #2 above, Frictional Contact is MINIMIZED (instead of maximized by
4 – SEAM DECEPTION...(4'x8' PANELS) – Example 1: 48” tall by 102” long
wall, Horizontal = 48” (technically) and it’s a 24” wide butt-joint or a
MINIMUM of doubling the 48" (Vertical = the same, generously, 96” but
they’re easy 6” wide joints). Example 2: 96” tall by 102” long wall,
Horizontal = 222” with 50% being 24” wide butts (Vertical = 192” of 6”
wide easy joints, yes LESS)...in a Kitchen, Horizontal = 100% of 24” wide
butts (Vertical = 0%). Yes, Horizontal does the taper area twice (MINIMUM) in
order to hide its butts, so VERY minimally just another 24” was added AND #5
below was not factored into Horizontal's monumental FRAUD.
5 – SELF-DEFEATING ANGLES – Horizontal only uses ONE of a panel’s tapered
edges and PUTS the other taper at the ceiling corner and baseboard, CREATING
(instead of AVOIDING) a twisted angle that MUST be shimmed or ADDITIONALLY
mudded. This too, instantly erases ALL "claimed" benefits of Horizontal by
DOUBLING the seam amount, patching itself to equal Vertical!
6 – UNFRIENDLY SEAMS – Horizontal celebrates the chest height seam and
PRETENDS there’s no 24”-WIDE floor to ceiling butt-joint OR the EVER present
baseboard bevel of UNFINISHED WORK (Vertical has easy joints and the top's
screwed, taped and mudded later with the ceiling corner and the baseboard SPOTS
can also be done separately).
7 - FIRE HAZARD LIABILITY - Horizontal only fills the coin-thin SEAM'S FACE and
has NO back-blocking, CAUSING smoke and fire’s spread by inviting fuel-air for
a fire's growth (Vertical is full depth and airtight once simply screwed-in).
8 - UNSAFE INSTALLATION - Horizontal needs 2-PEOPLE for a safe installation and
the panel is airborne, literally CREATING the chance to CAUSE injury (Vertical
easily tilts-up with just 1-person). Panel lifters aren't even as easy and safe
as Vertical’s tilt-up.
9 - ADDITIONAL WASTE - When correctly covering a knee wall, half wall, tub
front, column or soffit by first removing both tapered edges, Horizontal CAN'T
use the tapers elsewhere (Vertical can and does). AND, Horizontal WASTES 4-times
the mud on their completely unnecessary butt-joints AND baseboard bevel's...if
10 - DESTRUCTIVE IGNORANCE - Foundation and Framing crews go to great pains to
make everything flat, level, plumb and square. Horizontal DESTROYS those efforts
with their DEFECTIVE humps and baseboard bevels (Vertical keeps the perfection).
11 - GRASPING AT STRAWS WITH OUTRIGHT FRAUD - Horizontals FALSELY AND
UNKNOWINGLY wave the absurdly INVALID (FPL439) 1983 testing “Contribution of
Gypsum Wallboard to Racking Resistance of Light-Frame Walls” by the
self-convicted fraud Ronald W. Wolfe. FPL439 found that ALL tapered
paper-wrapped edges must be FULLY INTACT for Horizontal to beat Vertical,
PERIOD. In the real-world, Horizontal's bottom paper-wrapped edge is REMOVED BY
LAW, for spacing from all floors and thereby COMPLETELY NEGATE Wolfe’s
inexcusably deceitful and worthless "study" (LAUGHABLE) and summation.
12 - JOINT OR SEAM TREATMENT - According to the ASTM's C840 8.2, Horizontal's
seams MUST be mudded to provide ANY fire, smoke and air travel resistance
(Vertical's SO GOOD that it's NOT REQUIRED to have its seams treated AT ALL).
13 - COSTLY SLOW COMPLICATION - Horizontal's depend upon PRICEY special muds and
even messy tape or taping tools that WASTE mud. Taping tools still require a 2nd
step of knifing the tape and the muds require a mixing step. That's MORE
expense, MORE time, MORE tools and equipment and MORE water...for an INFERIOR
job! Vertical's SUPERIOR with the cheapest ready-mix bucket muds and dry
self-adhesive tape. Again, Vertical's seam treatment is JUST for looks.
14 - FIRE RATING FAIL - Most Single-ply or Single-layer drywall for Commercial
Work is required to be installed Vertically, to obtain drywall's ACTUAL fire
rating. This is well-known by the majority of Horizontals, but you and your
children don't matter to a Horizontal. And for what, to honor the FRAUDS that
taught them wrong? You've now seen that Vertical's FASTER overall and immensely
BETTER in every way.
Only promote HORIZONTAL AS WRONG and confidently cite the above incontestable
All valid points but in the Houston area I do not see these problems and
the vast majority of dry wall goes up horizontally. Because homes in
this also have other than 8' ceilings, 10, 11, 12 footers are common,
even 16'10' tall walls are common, the but joint is unavoidable
regardless of how the drywall is stacked. Again, I don't see issues,
and that is a visual inspection. The bigger issues are non straight
studs, no drywall direction hides that and creates the issues you
mentioned above concerning pictures and mirrors.
Maybe all the builders are doing it wrong.
Agreed again but you are assuming that the studs are actually 16" OC.
Often studs are 20" OC and walls are not always a perfect length to
avoid butt joints.
I could be wrong but I don't think dry wall helps much to reinforce the
connection between the top plate and bottom plate. I do however know
that it helps to prevent racking.
Well the bottom is typically covered by base boards so no need to mud
the bottom. The top has to be taped and floated anyway to join the ceiling.
replying to Scott Lurndal, Iggy wrote:
Yep, that Handbook is based on the error that's always been in the ASTM...the
word "except" should actually be "especially". But again, I got nowhere with any
of the manufacturers nor the ASTM this year. They just won't recognize their
air-tight requirement was completely abandoned due to 1-wrong-word.
replying to Leon, Iggy wrote:
Thank you and thank you again for actually reading, as well as comprehending
without emotional bias. Yep, and that's why nice new houses burn to the ground
in 20-minutes. A butt-joint 8', 10' or 12' up wouldn't bother anything and it
would be a horizontal hump instead of vertical...if you didn't turn it into a
If you know how to map a room or prep the site correctly, you end up with
extremely few corrections in a vertical install. Again, if the panel goes floor
to ceiling, there isn't even a single butt in the entire building.
You're not wrong, drywall can never be considered structural. However, by
connecting the top and bottom plate the drywall can't crack and all movement is
forced into the screws, where they can harmlessly widen their holes if and as
Correct, but why purposely MAKE anyone's job more difficult by not completing
your job? You wouldn't stand for framers putting in just enough studs to hold
the place up (72"-o.c.) and leave you with finishing their work. Same goes for
the ceiling, try cutting-in a horizontally installed room with a roller. You
can't, the angle's less than 90-deg., instead of more than 90-deg.
Great questions! You're actually the only sane person I've ever run into. I hope
you give vertical a try someday and finally allow drywall to do it's best.
Cracks, sags, specialty compounds, tape indecision, additional tools or cords
and bad-day mud jobs will all go away to leave you with a superior job.
replying to Leon, Iggy wrote:
Yeah, it's too bad and it's not just Houston it's the norm everywhere. I've even
seen builders, quite laughably, listing horizontal as a selling point...like
no-one else is doing the garbage.
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