1. Home
  2. Woodworking Forum
  3. What Do You Know About Recirculating Pumps? (Prevent Frozen Pipes)
  4. Page 2

What Do You Know About Recirculating Pumps? (Prevent Frozen Pipes)

Do you know if the fittings failed or was it the PEX itself?

If it was the fittings, do you know what type were used? There are at least 4 different kinds that I know of, probably more.

Reply to
DerbyDad03
Loading thread data ...

How many hours will that "instant hot water" pump last? To my knowledge, they are intended for occasional short use to get hot water to a fixture, not continuous use for hours when the outside temp is below XX degrees.

Reply to
invalid unparseable

are sealed in insulation, but I guess not enough.

power is available, etc.

I think you have a different kind of system in mind. Here's a "This Old House" segment on recirculating systems for hot water.

formatting link
Reply to
J. Clarke

Cost. Cost of installation. Operating cost.

Heat tape.

Reply to
krw

I plan to call the vendor on Monday and explain the situation in question, but for the time being, the following is the best I could find related to the pump's typical run time. From the vendor's website:

AMH3K-7 MODES OF OPERATION: AquaMotionHot? One and AquaMotionHot? Two are fully automatic systems that are controlled by built-in sensors and switches. When water at the faucet cools down, the sensor turns on the pump and shuts it off when hot water arrives. The pump runs, depending on the length and size of the pipe, three to four times an hour for one or two minutes to maintain instant hot water at the faucet.

Built-in timers on the pumps are available to limit the operating time to save energy when hot water is not needed.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Run the PEX above the insulation?

Connect PEX to your transition adapters with removable connectors make replacement simpler. Perhaps 1/4" quick disconnects.

Put the weakest link where you can get at it.

Reply to
krw

Maybe, although I don't know what insulation there is in the floor or how easy it would be to get the PEX "above it". The only thing I know is that the pipes are encased in some kind of hard insulation in the crawl space. The exterior-to-the-house access to the crawl space is via a less than 3' x 3' opening under the bathroom.

I honestly don't remember what the bathroom floor covering is. If it's vinyl, ripping it out and working from the top might be possible. If it's tile, that's a different story.

Well, it's not about "where you can get at it", it's about where will the broken link (pipe) do the least damage. If what normally happens happens - the pipe bursts between the frozen location and a down stream fixture - then that is going to be in the powder room vanity. The braided supply lines come up through the bottom of the vanity directly above the most possible freeze point.

It's a 1920's house and many of the floors are sagging. Hopefully the floor of the former-porch-now-powder-room slants towards the outside of the house. :-)

Reply to
DerbyDad03

There's cost of installation and operation of heat tape also. You have to get power to the heat tape properly and safely. Running pipes through a rim joist may be OK, but I'm pretty sure that running an extension cord through the rim joist is frowned upon. ;-) Proper exterior wiring and a GFCI receptacle will be required.

Yes, the pump itself is more expensive than the tape but there's labor cost or DIY time to install the pump or the power/tape, so that's basically a wash. In this case it would be DIY (me) so no need to debate the cost of hiring a plumber vs. an electrician. While I do enjoy electrical work more than plumbing, running power into the tiny crawl space and taping the pipes - with winter rapidly approaching - is not something I relish.

A far as the cost of the pump, well, let's just consider it a house warming gift. (Pun intended.)

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Now the question becomes "How much difference in temp between where the pump is installed and the coldest pipe location in the crawl space?"

Hope the vendor has a good answer for you.

Reply to
invalid unparseable

space are sealed in insulation, but I guess not enough.

work, power is available, etc.

The thermostat goes where the hot water is wanted. Otherwise there's not much point to it.

Reply to
J. Clarke

...

...

Why not just add enough insulation and an air dam to protect the pipes?

Couldn't take but another couple inches of dense foam between joists or over the run if it's across not between.

Reply to
dpb

I don't know what kind of fittings; I recall seeing a brass manifold and a bunch of white home-run PEX lines.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

Thanks for that, but I don't see an answer to my first question:

Do you recall if the PEX itself failed, like in the middle of a run or if was a fitting that go, either at the manifold or a shutoff or a T, etc.

Just curious...nothing more.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

IIRC, I was told that the PEX failed. I didn't see it myself.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

Which was also my observation. You COULD source a constant duty pump and make up the "kit" yourself.

Doing some investigation - the Watts 0955800 is rated to run 24/7. About US$200 on amazon. At about US$275 the Grundfos GRU-595916

595916 is also a candidate.

There are cheaper pumps that are not useable in a potable water system -so can not be used in a returnless system, for sure.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

The manifold itself, not being PEX, would be the most likely burst point

Reply to
Clare Snyder

If you subscribe to the theory that the burst often happens downstream of the frozen section, any downstream fixture or connection could be the "most likely" burst point.

The manifold isn't the only non-PEX component of the system.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Take out any insulation above the pipes and add insulation below.

Reply to
krw

High-R foam insulation would be ideal but I don't know how you'd DYI.

Reply to
krw

If the deal goes through, I'll be able to take a better look. From the quick peek into the crawl space, it looked like the pipes were out in the open air, i.e. not tucked up into the joist space. They appeared to be wrapped in some type of hard insulation.

It's a 1920's porch converted to a powder room (AFAIK) so the construction and subsequent conversion methods are not yet known.

Are you suggesting that all it would take is enough insulation packed around the pipes even though they may be exposed to temperatures below the 20º F threshold for days, maybe even weeks, at a time?

You'd think the original installer would have known this or the previous owner would have done something about as opposed to simply turning off the water whenever it got cold. Such a simple fix vs. no powder room all winter? Seems like we may be missing something here.

We'll see, maybe.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.