OT: Shops Not On Websites

[Mark Jerde]

Brian had a lot of stuff stolen from his shop. (Sorry for your loss, Brian.)

I have tons of photos of my shop & "projects" (*), and a web site where I could easily post the photos. (I count 21 "projects" within a few feet of this computer.) But I just can't force myself to put them on my site. I guess I just don't want to publish to the world at large the fact I have a

*substantial* investment in sawdust-making tools. Like my favorite boss used to say, "What my competitors don't know can't hurt me."

Am I the only one?

-- Mark

(*) "Projects." Everyone posts such nice things on ABPW. But I've made only 5 "furniture-grade" items so far. I have a full-time job, family responsibilities, etc etc, and what seems to really "trip my trigger" is

*minimum* investment of time and $ for maximum *usefulness.* - The inclined bookshelf on my desk started with two pieces of scrap. Two passes on the table saw, 4 passes on the router table, glue up, and I have a shelf that will last at least 200 years. QS oak would be prettier, but I *LIKE* the useful MDF thing 75% of woodworkers and 99.997% of the general public would have thrown away. ;-) - Ditto my two monitor stands, foot rest, book holder and music CD rack. ;-)

I'd prefer to have the butler find old growth timber for me to make shoe trees from. But the finances only permit maximum enjoyment from minimal investment.

[DJ Delorie]

Post them in a subdirectory, and set access rights so that nobody can view them. That way, you have a record stored at your ISP but you don't tempt anyone.

Better to put the photos in a safety deposit box, though.

[DJ Delorie]

Google will find it. Obscurity is of absolutely no value on the web these days. If you choose this route, learn how to set up a robots.txt file to keep most search robots out (not all honor it). Be careful to not list the unique name in the robots.txt but the directory it resides in, like

list /something/ in robots.txt.

OTOH, I do use the random-name with blank-index trick for my photo gallery, but then, I'm not so worried about what people will do with my pictures.

[DJ Delorie]

Clarification: someone, somewhere, who happens to know the URL (perhaps you mentioned it once or something) will bookmark it, and it will end up on a "My Bookmarks" page or something, and google finds it there.

It's way too risky to rely on obscurity to keep robots away. The web is too big for that to be a reasonable expectation.

[Rick Nelson]

If your ISP doesn't allow you to set access rights, you could also just use a unique directory name nobody is likely to guess. Maybe something like:

To be extra safe, create a blank text file in that directory and name it index.htm and save the real html file as uniquename.htm. If you need to show it to somebody, just delete the bogus index.htm file then rename uniquename.htm to index.htm.

Good luck!

-Rick

[dcurry]

I work with computers and internet security for a living.

The suggestions, so far, have been sensible.

Yes, google will 'find' your stash of photos, despite a robot.txt file.

Deleting the blank index.html is not needed. if someone needs to see your work, then give them hte full URL with the uniquename.html in the URL.

Yahoo Groups is another possibility. You can create a 'private group' that only people you authorize may join. You can then limit the permissions of the photo gallery there, any way you wish.

IF your ISP will permit you to use PHP based web applications, look into getting and installing Gallery

This nifty application can be used to safely put up your work and details, with the options of limiting access to viewing the photos. the details of hte photos (comments, descriptions, etc) are not contained in a file that is accessed by the Google or Yahoo bots.

If you need help, or have specific questions, please feel free to congtact me, on or off this group.

Sincerely,

Daniel Curry

Mark Jerde wrote:

[Wolfgang Jordan]

This is interesting. Can you explain how Google can find a page, if there are no links to it?

Wolfgang

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Rather that stash them in some place where security is a concern, burn a CD and put a copy in the house, one in a safe deposit box, your mother's house, or your desk/locker/toolbox at work. Ed [e-mail]

[fatman985]

If you don't publish your address, how will a burglar find you? If a thief breaks into my shop I'd like to watch how he manages to load my

400-pound tablesaw into a pickup without drawing the attention of neighbors or my dog. It's not to say that such thefts don't occur, just that most thieves are looking for lighter weight, less bulky, easy to sell/fence electronics, coin collections, etc. When my brother's house was burglarized several years ago the thieves went for the jewelry and the sound system. Not surprisingly, they left his machinery and tools alone. They left his expensive TV alone, most likely because it weighed 250 pounds.

[Brian]

Problem with this is that people surf the web looking for this with programs that download everything web directories and sub-directories. If it is there, they will find it.

One option would be to use a program like WinRAR to encrypt all your pictures into a single .RAR file. Use a password you'll remember years from now, and store the file on CD or DVD somewhere safe. I like the idea of someone's to keep redundant copies in several locations.

Brian.

[J. Clarke]

If you have a domain name he can get your address from InterNIC. If you have a listed phone number, if he knows your approximate location, if he knows your real name, and if your name is even slighly unusual he can probably find you from a reverse phone book lookup. Someone who is into that sort of thing probably has a few dozen other ways to find someone.

I seem to recall someone's gun collection getting stolen even though he had it in a massive safe bolted to the structure of the house. The thieves ran a chain around the safe, attached it to their truck, and drove off. The safe remained intact, the house didn't. Once they had it outside the house they just loaded it up and drove off and opened it at their leisure.

Wouldn't work with a saw (at least not and have it good for much afterwards) but thieves can come prepared and aren't necessarily incompetent--four guys with a dolly can probably manage to get it out right quick, and two guys with a winch on the truck could probably manage.

OTOH, sometimes you get the last laugh--some twit stole my laptop the day after it died beyond economical repair.

[Andy Jeffries]

Eh?

If he doesn't link to the folder from his homepage/rest of his site then none of the programs that download web sites will find it.

He'd be quite safe if he just wanted to create a folder with a unique name so it's on file somewhere remote. Unless he gives out the folder name no search engine or program will find it.

However, I wouldn't rely on your ISP being able to prove the file has been up there for any given amount of time... MOST ISPs don't log when individual files are uploaded/touched.

Cheers,

Andy

[Andy Jeffries]

Likewise...

I'd also (with Wolfgang) be interested in knowing how Google would "find" the folder? Does Google maybe try random combinations of letters and numbers in order to try and crack unique folder names? Of course it bloody doesn't!!!

Don't spread FUD...

I agree with that...

However, I'm sure that Google's elite password cracking team that you've hinted at will eventually get on to that security problem ;-)

Just the specific question of how Google's spider would find a folder that isn't linked with a unique name?

Regards,

Andy

[B a r r y]

Of course, many people register domain names to PO boxes, work addresses, or hosting companies. Cell phones work great as contact numbers.

Barry

[Jay]

Burn the pictures to CD. Make copies. Send them to each of your (trustworhy) relatives. This is cheaper than a safety deposit box or fire safe and you get geographic dispersion.

Jay

[Mark Jerde]

??? Plus 10 years of newgroups messages.

BTW,

-- Mark

[Mark Jerde]

How would Google find e.g.

? There is no link from the home page.

-- Mark

[BRuce]

not necessarily Google but other programs similar to what I use to grab web pages and sometimes sites. it has an option to "get all files in all dirs", it also has the option of ignoring the robots.txt file.

so I do this to your page and then post it > [e-mail] wrote:

[BRuce]

[Andy Jeffries]

You CAN'T do that! The "get all files in all dirs" only works if the site advertises (by a link or img src) the folder name. If it doesn't your app won't find it.

As an example, I have just placed a folder on my site

with a "random" name.

This folder contains a page called "bruce_findme.html" (there, if your app does what you say - that may help).

In that file is a password. Post the password on here.

But it won't work!

Andy