No I don't agree with it because it's a dumb-ass redneck hack. Just because the fools who write code in the USA allow it doesn't mean it is right or safe. The reason we use "cable" instead of individual wires is to ensure all conductors for a given circuit are kept together so unidentified or separate conductors don't get "lost" down the way. A safety ground is for "safety" and it is meant to be an "integrated" safety solution. Another reason I can't figure out why some American jurisdictions require conduit and wire instead of cable for residential use. Bad enough trying to sort out the spiderweb in industrial and commercial premises after a dew electricians have had their fingers into it.
The reason why conduit was require is money, the unions and contractors had enough influence to get it in as the code. Cook County Illinois, also required cast iron DVW above ground, til recently when the reduction in cost of PVC and ABS was realized.
250.118: The equipment grounding conductor run with or enclosing the circuit conductors shall be one or more or a combination of the following . . . (2) Rigid metal conduit (3) Intermediate metal conduit (4) Electrical metallic tubing
Getting fewer and fewer up here. as soon as they change hands the knob and tube has to go. Almost impossible to get new insurance on a house with knob and tube or a 60 amp or smaller service up here - and no insurance means no mortgage
Cast iron has been basically DEAD up here for over 30 years - and like knob and tube wiring is virtually uninsureable. Copper DVW is just about as bad (for good reason) Insurance companies are NOT in the business of taking risks - no matter WHAT you may believe. With water damage claims becoming the MAJORITY of insured losses - including mold damage from "incipient leaks", insurers are getting REALLY gun-shy. Used to be insurers made their money on investing the premiums, and paid out losses from the investment income. That investment income has pretty much evaporated at the same time claim costs have sky-rocketed.
Just because it is legal doesn't make it right, proper, or safe. MINIMUM CODE to me means "almost good enough" Rigid conduit? Yes - I'll agree with that. Even IMC - which is also a THREADED connection. EMT? Not on MY watch. The safety ground may be "ok" when installed, but corrosion and settling over time can disrupt, or at the very least increase the resistance of the ground return circuit. ANd that's ASS U ming the installer used proper bonding bushings and properly tightened EVERY conduit connection, and NOBODY shifted a box or bumped a conduit run to cause a connection to loosen. Add environmental influences such as humidity - even from condensation, and the RISK increases dramatically. So - like I said with the external ground wire - "I" dissagree - and for the same reason. Not running the saferty ground wire in EMT is a cheap-assed redneck hack job. Pure and simple. Zinc plated steel slip-on connectors with #8 steel "set screws" on .042 or .049 electro-galvanized steel tubing does not give me ANY confidence in providing a low-resistance fault current return. A tapered pipe thread bushing on .075 to .090 (1/2 inch to 1 inch diameter) imc gives me a bit more confidence (but "I" still like to see a dedicated ground wire bonding each outlet box or device - a "contiguous ground" that is easily checked and verified.
Check with the electricians talk site and you will find the majority agree with me.
That too - but did you ever try to trace out circuits in a conduit installation that (a) does not have "as built" circuit diagrams , OR (B) where the as-built diagrams and construction are not properly "documented" with location numbers and circuit number ID tags, OR (C) where modifications and additions or deletions have been made and not added to the "as built" diagrams???? Following a Romex or BX (Type AC Armoured cable) run is a piece of cake compared to identifying and following strands of THHN or THWN through a mess of conduit. How is it even POSSIBLE to ensure neutral and line conductors stay "paired"??? Raceways are bad enough - but conduit???? Fergetaboutit!!!!
Protection IS required for Romex (NMSC) in exposed or vulnerable areas. BY CODE, and is the only time pulling NMSC through conduit is allowed. - At least anywhere I've been involved.
Conduit in steel stud (sardine can) construction does make sense as IBs (insulating bushings) are VERY likely to pop out of the holes when pulling cable through, and a "snag" is liable to dis-assemble an entire wall if the wire is pulled before drywall is installed on at least one side of the structure. Don't get me started on steel stud construction - - - - - - -
One of the requirements for issuance of insurance is that there be an "insurable risk". If there were no risks there would be no need for insurance.
Actually the ability of insurers to invest premiums is controlled by regulations. Insurers most assuredly do make their money by collecting premiums and selling product. There is an investment component but it is not the major source of income. Note that that is not a guess on my part--I do these calculations for a living.
What leads you to believe that claim costs have "sky-rocketed"?
He could buy but he could not insure. Don't know about down in the bayou but up here just about any building that is livable year round is worth insuring. I've seen some of the miners' shacks in the hills of Virginia and the hollers of Kentucky that aren't worth insuring
-but I'm not sure the residents can afford electricity either. If they were chicken coups up here we'd knock them down and start over
oom right next to the washer/dryer, which has a 30 A dryer outlet (unused). Will the electrician be able to use that connection to create an outlet fo r the treadmill, or will he/she have to run a totally new connection for th e 17A from the fusebox?
Was the K&T the only reason you wouldn't have bought the house? I certainly would have put that on the con side of the ledger, but there may have been enough pros to offset it. I've seen some old Vermont mansions that I'd cons ider buying even if they had *no* electricity. ;-)
The first time I ever saw K&T was in my God-parents house. They lived on Narragansett Blvd. Why do I tell you what street they lived on? Here's why:
Many years later, when I bought my first house, they reached under the mattress and pulled out a wad of cash to help with the down payment. When I started to upgrade the wiring in the house they helped me buy, the first th ing I noticed was that some of the cloth covered "romex" was made by the Narragansett Wiring Company. God does things like that every now and then. :-)
oom right next to the washer/dryer, which has a 30 A dryer outlet (unused). Will the electrician be able to use that connection to create an outlet fo r the treadmill, or will he/she have to run a totally new connection for th e 17A from the fusebox?
You know what they say about blanket statements...
From the WireChief Electric Ltd in Vancouver, BC. Their website says Copywrite 2010-2019, so I guess the following is still current.
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However, you may still be able to get homeowner?s insurance if your K&T system for lighting and power outlets is upgraded to meet the following conditions:
- Exposed conductors must be in good condition.
- Circuits must be protected by a circuit breaker or appropriate fuse.
- No further outlets are added to the original system.
- Not used ungrounding plugs in laundry rooms or bathrooms or outdoors for even a lower risk level.
Knob-and-Tube wiring repairs may be a good option if budget is a concern.
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The following was written by a US based insurance agent, also with website dated 2019. Note the words "nearly impossible" and "will consider", as oppo sed to "impossible" and "won't consider".
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ome-uninsurable.aspx
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Keep in mind, I'm not aware of any company cancelling existing policies bec ause of Knob & Tube wiring at this time. However, the insurance industry has bee n quietly restricting underwriting guidelines to the point where it is nearly impossible to find a standard company willing to issue a new policy on a ho me that contains this type of wiring.
...
... has caused companies to view Knob & Tube wiring as an unacceptable risk . I've contacted other insurance agents in my area, and have found only a few who have markets that will consider homes with limited K&T wiring (in basements or attics) if a licensed electrician will provide a written state ment attesting to its safety.
Not but a long shot but it was a huge negative. The wiring in the walls had (mostly) been redone but the ceilings were all K&T. They don't have the money to rewire the rest (or do the rest of the needed repairs on an old house). I could do much of it but they're 1200mi from here and I've seen enough snow for this lifetime. ;-)
Too funny. Was the mattress from the Bank of Narragansett?
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