G Ross snipped-for-privacy@comwest.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
Or they just never knew. The worst thing about electrical is that it can be deadly wrong and still appear to work properly.
Puckdropper
Bill snipped-for-privacy@att.net wrote in news:gqtdJ.15316$ snipped-for-privacy@fx39.iad:
I did that once... I didn't have access to the circuit panel but needed to move some outlets. Turns out they were controlled by the wall switch and I was able to safely move them by turning the switch off. You better believe I watched that switch like a hawk!
Always verify power is off. If you use a non-contact voltage detector, you can set the detector up to show power is on, then have a helper shut off power, then turn it back on again, then back off. That will help prevent a false "off" indication. (I never fully trust those things to show power is OFF, only on.)
Puckdropper
In this case, it seems the one who is most at risk is the one who comes in after the install, and makes assumptions. For instance, if I had only flipped the switch (which I did) and failed to shut it off at the breaker, then I would have been at (serious) risk.
A neighbor asked me to change the light outside her front door. She had started to take the old one off and ran into some problems. Before I touched anything I asked her "Is the power off?" "Yes, it is."
So I take the old one off, wire in the new one and say "OK, you can turn the power on." She reaches inside the door and flips the switch.
I took a few deep breaths and calmly explained to her that "turning the power off" should always be done at the breaker.
Yes, turn the power off at the breaker but if you don't want to be an Alec Baldwin you should check the breaker/gun yourself before taking your or some one else's life into account.
This was 40+ years ago. Still somewhat of a rookie and still a trusting person. Now I follow Reagan's advice. "Doveryai, no proveryai."
Sometimes that doesn't work. If there is some device that is always on, on that circuit, there is a path trough that device back to the neural. If you separate the neutrals in the box the neutral becomes "hot". Because it's a low current (always-on devices don't use much power) it probably wouldn't be a dangerous shock but can be enough to startle, perhaps off a ladder. I had it happen to me once. Surprised the hell out of me. It took a while to figure out what happened.
Not sure why you didn't have access to the circuit panel but don't count on a circuit being completely off unless it's dead from the panel.
Another live circuit in the area can be used to test the detector before testing the circuit you're working on.
I had an inspector tell me once that he didn't want to see the neural going through an outlet. He wanted to see the neutrals pigtailed. Hots were fine, wired through the two screws of an outlet but that I wouldn't pass inspection if the neutrals weren't pigtailed. He admitted that code didn't require it but didn't care.
He was a nice guy and helped me out quite a bit by telling me exactly what he wanted to see before I started. He was suitably impressed at the final inspection and called me a nut. It was only a garage but it was also my shop. He'd probably never seen a 60A sub for a garage.
..and never point a wire at anyone you don't want to electrocute. Or something like that.
BTW, how on hell did a live round get anywhere near a sound stage? And exactly why was a gun that *could* shoot a live round used on the set? There seem to be too many "accidents" here.
I was talking with a retired shop teacher a few years ago (at a wood-carving show), and he was complaining that what he had been teaching wasn't really relevant in today's society. I told him that he was mistaken and he asked me what it was that I learned in shop class that was relevant. I said "respect for safety". He just rolled his eyes, but I still believe what I said, and I believe that respect for safety has value. Of course, it also seeded my appreciation of the craft and legacy of working wood, metal, or electronics--or even drywall! : ) I think it provided me with basic knowledge that, with the exception of folks like those here, most lack. I could translate the colored rings off of a resistor if I had to! I would need to review, but it would not be a mystery to me. IIRC, they are (still) measured in terms of ohms. ; )
I can total sympathesize with Alec Baldwin the actor here. His job is not to know how to safely handle a gun, but to look like he does. I know how to check the few guns I've handled for _something_ in the chamber, but I don't know how to on all guns. And I don't know if I could reliably tell a blank from a round without very careful investigation. That's why there's supposed to be an armorer on set to do those things.
But Alec Baldwin the producer of the movie who didn't ensure that there was a dilligent armorer on set is totally in the wrong.
Widely circulating reports say that crew had been using that same weapon for target practice earlier in the day/week.
Not being expert in guns, I'm going to suspect that blanks have enough discharge that using them in regular weapons is standard. Certainly I have seen calls for stopping the use of blanks, and doing it all with special effects in post-production since this incident. A switch like that would bring a lot of safety benefits, like use of weapons that can't actually fire. I've handled a stage production gun with a completely solid barrel and warning against loading it stamped onto the side. It seemed like a regular production weapon with the barrel switched out.
It does seem like the producer(s) skimped a lot on safety.
Elijah
------ rules and regulations are written in blood, as they say
I've been safety-anal for a very long. I guess it started in my USCG days when I got electrocuted by a 400 V-DC power supply during my first week of ET school. The current went in one hand, across my chest and out of the other, until 2 other students pulled the plug. I lifted the 20 lb power supply off of the worktable like it was a feather and couldn't let go. I was yelling "Turn it off! Turn it off!" I have the burn scars on my left hand as a reminder.
It took 2 people to pull the plug because one guy grabbed the cord and the power strip came up with it. Another guy slapped the power strip down and the plug came out. I saw the whole thing and remember it vividly to this day.
I went to the infirmary for the night and when I went back to class the next day there were 2 changes:
1 - Three guys had quit ET school. They basically said "Nope. Not me. The Guard will just have to find me another job." 2 - All of the power strips were screwed down to the worktables. ;-)I went on to work on mega-watt transmitters with 15KV-DC power supplies. I don't recall what the guys that quit school ended up doing.
Yes!
Latest is that they were doing target practice off set. Apparently there was a fanny pack full of live rounds.
Still stupid! While those rounds should not have been near. Obviously some one did not empty all the live rounds before putting in blanks.
But Baldwin should at least be charged with manslaughter. If he was not familiar with weapons he should have taken basic fire arm safety. And the number one rule is to never point any gun at something that you do not intend to shoot.
There was no reason at all to point the gun at the staff.
When you experience an incidence like that you tend to look at possibilities that are outside of what you are doing.
When I cut my thumb, 32 years ago, I was in shock and disbelief, I was pretty sure I had taken all of the safety measures necessary, cutting a dado.
As it turned out I was cut after the completion of the cut, after I sat the piece of material down, and after I turned the saw off.
Had I waited an additional 3~4 seconds to take the next step there would have been no injury, so to speak.
I really did not know what happened to lead up to that point until 1 year later and I had the exact same thing happen again. Because my thumb was no 1" shorter I only felt the breeze of the dado blade as it was coasting to a stop. I was reaching over the blade to remove the fence before the blade came to a complete stop. Turns out the dado sets take a while to stop spinning.
I know what led up to my injury and I was totally at fault.
We each had a training device that had a power supply and a signal generator as a load. It was all in one open chassis, kind of like this:
There was a short cable loop with banana plugs on each end that connected the power supply section to the load section.
When I pulled upwards on the loop, only the output side of the cable came out, leaving the
400 volts on the exposed end. Somehow, the live end made contact with my left thumb at the same time my left forearm made contact with the chassis. That basically "froze" that arm so I instinctively used my right arm to push the chassis away. Well, all that did was provide a path across my chest and back into the chassis. I was stuck. I remember holding the chassis at chest level and screaming "Turn it off! Turn it off!"When the power was finally disconnected I literally threw the device down on to the worktable. I didn't put it down gently, I didn't just drop it. I was so pissed that I threw it down. Busted it up pretty good too. ;-)
Someone on set was shooting beer cans with the gun earlier in the day.
How did they fit them in the chamber?
Really good can crusher.
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